Recommend me a handbook please

[kfjoe]

Can anyone recommend me a refrigeration/air con Handbook/Troubleshooting guide plz.
I was looking for the Refrigeration Technicians pocket book, but it seems to be out of print.
Thxs for any advice

[Argus]

You may consider a new set of books out in the UK called the 'Refrepair' and 'Refribase' manuals. They also come with a CD ROM and take you from the basics through qestions and answers on most subjects including electrics, UK style, in SI units.

Details from the publisher, Gareth Rees at Sarn Europe. e mail to

Gjrees@sarneuropa.co.uk

Also, look at the June edition of 'Service Engineer'.
Students in the UK can apply for the ARI Refrigeration and Air Conditioning handbook in a free ballot just by writing to the BRA. They are giving 30 copies away free.


Good luck
________
Hero Honda Passion history

[kfjoe]

Thanks very much for the info
going to check them out.

[Nobby]

"Troubleshooting and Servicing Modern Air Conditioning and Refigeration Systems"
Author: John Tomczyk
Published by: Esco Press, P.O. Box 521, Mt Prospect, IL 60056
Web Site: http://www.escoinst.com
ISBN 1-930044-06-2

Worked for me.

Stephen

[Gary]

IMHO, the best trouble shooting book on the market is "TECH Method Lesson Series" written by Gary R. Lloyd CMS aka Me.

The SI version goes into print on August 1st.

[surfaceblow]

I've found Audel's "Refrigeration: Home and Commercial" useful. Or you can see if you can find S. Elonka's "Standard Refrigeration and Air Conditioning Q&A", which isn't bad even if somewhat dated.

[Abe]

[justin johnson]

For anyone just coming into the trade,and looking for a good reference manual that covers all aspects,look for "DOOLIN'S TROUBLE SHOOTERS BIBLE". Only available from the states i think,but 300 pages and hardback. Excellent.
www.doolco.com - isbn no 0-914626-11-6

[chemi-cool]

hi kfjoe

www.ebay.com

chemi

[Gary]

When you're done with all of that theoretical crap, and want procedures that really work, come see me.

I have been a hands-on service tech for over 35 years. If there were any trouble shooting books out there worth reading, I would not have written my own.

Doolin's?... LOL

[Peter_1]

Originally posted by Gary
When you're done with all of that theoretical crap, and want procedures that really work, come see me.

I have been a hands-on service tech for over 35 years. If there were any trouble shooting books out there worth reading, I would not have written my own.

Doolin's?... LOL

You meant in the English language?

[shogun7]

"I have been a hands-on service tech for over 35 years. If there were any trouble shooting books out there worth reading, I would not have written my own".

Gary,Gary, Gary come clean , you expect us to believe that your book fits all? I compliment you on writting your own book but you know as well I (over 35 years also) that it takes many sources of information to be a good technition. Like the internet ...and all the books one can accumlate in a library. I am constantly doing research on various problems in our industry and referring to many, many sources if information.

[Gary]

Did I say it fits all? I don't think so. Is it better than the crap that's out there? Judge for yourself.

I took four years off to do the original research and write the books. For better or worse, it is definitely a whole different approach to trouble shooting.

But not as different as it used to be. Since I first introduced the concepts in 1986 (ACH&R News), I have watched the industry gradually evolve in my direction.

[kfjoe]

Are your Books available in the UK ?

[kfjoe]

.

[kfjoe]

.

[Gary]

I ship to UK, and offer a flat rate shipping charge, which is much lower than UPS charges.

[Gary]

Trouble shooting is the Achilles Heel on the service side of the refrigeration industry. I have spent most of my adult life searching for better ways to trouble shoot.

If you check through my posts from the beginning, you will see me asking repeatedly for a full list of temperatures and pressures, and that list is almost never presented. People think I am nit picking in even asking. Measuring and analyzing the data is the difference between knowing what is wrong with the system and guessing.

I think it is a very good sign that some service techs nowadays are using subcooling and superheat as trouble shooting tools, but it is still looking at only part of the picture. There are many more variables which are important diagnostic tools.

The sad fact is that, despite everything, most professionals out there are still guessing.

[chemi-cool]

hi gary,

I'm thinking of getting one of your books.

a. is there any discount for RE members?
b. what is the shipping cost to Israel?
c. can I pay wit PayPal?
d. is it hard or soft cover?

chemi

[Gary]

a. I have recently reduced the prices in an effort to increase volume. They are about as low as I can go and still be worthwhile. These books are specialized and geared toward a very limited market.

b. In the products section of my website, shipping costs are automatically calculated for UPS options. I also offer a flat rate of $20.00, which is cheaper than UPS for most areas of the planet. The service is a little slower (1-2 weeks), but hopefully worth the wait. I recently shipped a book to DaBit in NL, and it took 6 days.

c. The easiest way is to pay with credit card at my secure ordering site, but I have a paypal account if that works better for you.

d. On the two major books, I laminate the covers, so that they can kick around your service truck, rather than gathering dust on your bookshelf, so I guess you could say they are semi-hardcover.

[chemi-cool]

thanks gary,
give me some time.

chemi

[Gary]

Some often asked questions about the ACR Trouble Shooting book:

Q: Does it cover everything?
A: No, it covers basic step-by-step procedures for typical systems in 4 categories, i.e. high temp, medium temp, low temp, and cascades. It provides a very strong foundation upon which to build your trouble shooting skills.

Q: Is it basic or advanced trouble shooting?
A: It is basic trouble shooting. When I say this most will tell me that they already know the basics. No, what you learned in school was basic 'guessing what's wrong'. What I offer is basic 'knowing what's wrong'.

Q: What's it all about?
A: Some read the book, and they think it's about simplified explanations. Some read the book, and they think it's about the tests I advocate. Those who use the procedures every day come to the realization that it is about the specific sequence of tests. When you test out of sequence, you are back to guessing. It is a process of elimination, designed to reveal all problems if/when the sequence is followed. If the system has 1 problem, you will find 1 problem. If the system has 10 problems, you will find 10 problems.

And then there is the teaching technique. I use a technique called "spiraling" wherein the fundamentals are drilled into the reader. If you read from the first page to the last, you can't help but learn the fundamental concepts.

[Dan]

Gary, you need to trademark that method. "Spiraling."

It is a practical paradigm and excellent visual aid. I took your course 4 years ago and only now have looked at your troubleshooting spiral. I am just guessing that's what you are talking about.

The neat thing about the teaching method is that just because you found one problem, you don't get to run away. You recycle through perfectly good observations again.

And the problems change. You might replace a relay the first time around, but the next time around you discover another faulty device.

And you recycle... spiral?

[Gary]

Yes, the method sometimes takes you through repetitions to reveal multiple problems, but that is not what I am referring to.

Except that which is experienced directly through our five senses, all new information we acquire is linked to knowledge we already possess (tastes like chicken). That's how we learn.

In the books, I try to present the basic procedures in their simplest form, and in such a way that it is thoroughly understood. I then take the reader through the same procedure repeatedly, around and around, adding variations and complexity with each repetition, building and linking new information along the way. This is what I refer to as "spiraling". It is a very effective technique, assuming the reader does not skim through the book. You can lead a horse to water...

Whatsmore the information is weighted, in that the more important points (from a diagnostic viewpoint) are repeated most.

[Abe]

I guess I best keep my mouth shut then huh........Mark.....lol

[REL]

I wanted to add something here.

Think of the refrigeration process in terms of starting your car. You have to put the key in, turn it, have electrical power, the starter must turn, the electrical coil must fire at the right time, the fuel pump must pump, the fuel injectors must squirt fuel into the cylinder etc.

Most people when the car does not start will check the gas gauge and then seek someone for a jump start without regard for the fact the starter is turning the motor over.

TECH Method approaches trouble shooting by correcting similar mistakes. It is written in such a way by design to drive home the importance of each step with additional reasons to justify the previous step.

If you are a newbie, it will prevent you from skipping critical issues and if you have been around for a few years, it might help you break some old habits. IT did for me.

The best description I can give it is A PATH TO THE ANSWERS, not the answers. No book written I have found has all the answers

I highly recommend it, how high? I have probably purchased over ten copies now and placed an order for two more today along with the entire kit for continuing education for my staff here at the school.

[Gary]

I like to think of it as 'why it works' (the design engineer's question) versus 'why it doesn't work' (the trouble shooter's question). Or 'calculation and prediction' (design) versus 'measurement and analysis' (trouble shooting).

The intent of the books is to teach trouble shooting, not design. I gloss over a few basic design principles in an oversimplified and superficial manner, delving only as deeply as needed for the next step in the trouble shooting process. It's about trouble shooting.

That said, many have told me that these simplified explanations prepare them for the in depth design principles presented in the more technical books. More spiraling and linkage. Foundation is everything

[REL]

I agree Marc, but you missed the boat on me. I am an obsessive compulsive WHY guy. That is why I find so much value in Gary's book. It is an excellent resource that makes the practical how method based on the WHY it works that way science. A rare quality indeed. My growth and understanding of refrigeration is not complete, nor am I sure it ever will be. I suppose if it was, I would not visit forums such as this one

I figure about the time I know every WHY there is to know, something new will be along!

[Peter_1]

Originally posted by Marc O'Brien
'tis all in the eye of the beholder, each to his own reality. I too can see much value in Gary's book, it would be great if 99% of the people I have spoken to had studied it at sometime in their life.

Where that refr . technicians or carpenters you have spoken?
And can I count myself to the 99% or to the 1%?
These figures are exaggerated I think.



I don't need any mathematical expressions to solve a pure technical cooling problem.

My clients often says that they see/hear that they have the impression that I can feel or see through what's happening inside a faulty systems, sometimes only after making a phone call.

That's no complete through but first I try to eliminate certain possibles causes just by listening to their story (very important for me even it's not coherent), then measure some values or just listen to the noise of the compressor, feel temperatures with my hand and then think some time and see between the story, measured values, eliminated causes (eventually only in my mind) what the problem can be.

But this can't be learned in books. No way. It's experience that counts then, each will do it on his own way.

The only thing that counts is that when you leave the site is that the client's problem is solved for a fair price and you don't have to come again for the same problem.


And the way you bring over the solution to the client, the way you explain the cause and the possible solution(s) (depending on the sort client you have, Boucher versus engineer) is of the same or even more importance then the final pure technical solution for the problem.

[Gary]

I don't need any mathematical expressions to solve a pure technical cooling problem.

I agree. I can handle math when it is absolutely necessary, but I find it incredibly boring. If I weren't a chronic insomniac, it would put me right to sleep.

That's no complete through but first I try to eliminate certain possibles causes just by listening to their story (very important for me even it's not coherent), then measure some values or just listen to the noise of the compressor, feel temperatures with my hand and then think some time and see between the story, measured values, eliminated causes (eventually only in my mind) what the problem can be.

Now organize your steps of elimination in every conceivable combination, until you end up with the sequence that finds all problems in the least steps. In other words, the most efficient sequence.

... feel temperatures with my hand...

But this can't be learned in books.

I feel temperatures with my hand, too. But my hand contains a Fluke clamp-on probe. This is probably just a little more more accurate, whatsmore it yields a standard number, and that number can indeed be learned in books.

[Peter_1]

Originally posted by Gary
Now organize your steps of elimination in every conceivable combination, until you end up with the sequence that finds all problems in the least steps. In other words, the most efficient sequence.
I feel temperatures with my hand, too. But my hand contains a Fluke clamp-on probe. This is probably just a little more more accurate, whatsmore it yields a standard number, and that number can indeed be learned in books. [/B]

Without overrating myself, I think that I eliminate the steps you mention in my mind, without using a book.

And you can't measure difficult the speed of a repair. And even if you could do it: speed is not important, the most important is that the job is done correct and the client is satisfied. The client is not interested in how you did it.

I think all technicians - plumbers, electronic technicians, software guys ...- use this technique (or should use it) if they know what they are doing: eliminating possible causes by measuring certain values, thinking, doing a little test here and there to prove certain thoughts, comparing values with other values or with a story....

But I stay with my first statement: " That's experience that only can be learned by doing it with your own hands and our own mind"

Therefore I sometimes need only to feel with my hands to eliminate steps - thats what I was trying to explain - sometimes with an electronic device.

But I rarely need a temperature probe for fault finding, especially not a Fluke.

And reading numbers on a thermometer and compare them with numbers in a book is not the right way, at least in my opinion: you must be able to interpretate what's behind a number and why this number is in that situation now just number x and not number y.

If you understand a LogP chart and be able to translate it practically in the field, then you can solve many problems.

Prove me I'm wrong and post one simple problem that can be read in your books with the given solution.

[Gary]

Peter, let's just say that the book doesn't suck. Pretty much everyone who reads it, from rank beginner to long time veteran, feels he has gotten his money's worth.

Isn't that enough? If it fails the perfection test, does that mean it it is not a worthwhile tool?

It's worth the money. Ask anyone who has read it. Buy a copy and judge for yourself.

Do it for humantarian reasons. I am retired on a small fixed income, and if I sell a few books I get to eat. Feed the poor starving author.

[RogGoetsch]

Great discussion.

I see a communication difference here. I think almost everyone who posts on this board is to some degree both a "how" AND "why" person.

Above average is what you are, gentlemen. Most techs leave the job at the door. We spend actual free time flogging our ideas about. (The phrase "get a life" comes to mind. Too late for me!)

Mathematics is a 'how" to help understand the "why". I like it, but it just gets me close to the real world. There are always some variables I can't nail down so I love to work with the actual system.

The book sounds great, especially for those new to the trade. I'm sure it is the result of practical field experience that was missing from my early texts.

I think most good old-timers have already learned through trial and error and also have a gift for logical analysis whether they know it or not, or they would not be "good".

I became so frustrated in tech school with the instructor not being able to answer my "why" questions that I enrolled in a 4-year engineering program (now defunct, alas). I can design, but my first love is troubleshooting.

And after years of it, I find the most fun part is to see if I can diagnose the problem before I have taken a tool out of my pouch. You can smell an over-heated motor, a burned transformer, a blown capacitor, a fried contactor, etc. You can hear compressor problems, noisy bearings, etc. I always feel liquid & suction lines, coil return bends, compressor heads, oil sumps, etc.

So many times after I found the problem I realized there were small clues, almost subliminal, that I had not noticed, that I now try to use all my senses before my meters, just to keep the job interesting.

One customer who liked to do his own maintenances called me for an ice machine problem. I walked in the front door and heard the answer. I could hear water splashing in his ice machine from the front door, which meant the distribution headers were offset so the water fell past the freezing plates. I asked him if he had just cleaned his machine. He replied in the affirmative so I told him he had not aligned the headers correctly. He looked at his watch and told me that 30 seconds was just a little quicker than my previous service call.

I have a dozen or so refrigeration books and I intend to add Gary's to the mix one of these days. Just waiting for a sale....

Rog

[chemi-cool]

hi roger,

if I could write in english as you do.
what I think and feel, would come very much the same.

very well written.

chemi

[Peter_1]

Originally posted by Marc O'Brien
Peter, make a cup of coffee, sit back and relax. Put your mind into an honest a state as possible. You have to be absolutely true to yourself... pure honesty is required. Then go to this site and answer every question. http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp

Then copy and paste the results page here. Print it off for your own records too.

Marc,

I don' like this kind of tests/questions psychs had invented to test your inner self and make decissions on it or qualify you in a certain group without even seeing you or hearing you.

Some questions can't be answered with a simple yes or no.

I found out in the past if you do such a test again some time later, the result has sometimes completely changed.

BTW, why should my personal answers - these are personal matters - benefit this thread or group?
If I see could understand the sense of it, i would give it a try.

What are you trying to prove Marc?
Because that's your intention I suppose.

It only says something about me, my person, my character, but nothing about the technical working methods we were discussing.

It's only a personal point of view.

[frank]

Here's the results from my test Marc - how did I do?
22 33 78 67

[frank]

Opps - sorry Marc - that was the result from the MARRIAGE test

[frank]

You Know

[REL]

You haven't answered one question. The reliability of results has decreased. Would you like to answer this question then click 'Back' button on your browser. Answer this question and press 'Score It' button again.

Your Type is
INTJ
Introverted Intuitive Thinking Judging
Strength of the preferences %
33 56 67 39


You are:
moderately expressed introvert

moderately expressed intuitive personality

distinctively expressed thinking personality

moderately expressed judging personality

[frank]

Was that for me REL?

[REL]

I might add this, I am only who I am, I am not really subject to a lot of change and I value honesty above any other quality.

Without regard for wat anyone might think, I pretty much figure if you met me, the qualities and imperfections would be clear.

[REL]

No, I took it Frank

[frank]

here's the real one Marc

Your Type is
INTJ
Introverted Intuitive Thinking Judging
Strength of the preferences %
11 33 67 56

[REL]

As I hold Gary in high regard, I am quite glad to be in good company.

[Peter_1]

Did twice the test with 2 hours between them
1st time:
1 - 44 - 22 - 56

2nd time
11 - 33 - 56 -33

But I stays in both tests an ENFJ type or Teacher type according to Keirsey (whoever she or he may be)

So what's next now?

[Abe]

Not wanting to be left out.......I too did it......says I , shyly

ISFJ
67
11
22
6

Hope I dont get booted off this forum

[Abe]

Mark


I like the part where it says......They hate confrontation......when in trouble......they scapper

Im going to do the test again........somehow it makes me lack lustre......without fire power

[REL]

An interesting note based upon a shift in mood. The first time I took it, I was at home, relaxed with the kids (both kids severly disabled autistic) A shift in events and addressing some critical issues here at work, working through some design flaws in that lab, now I have retaken it to see what might be different through just being in another mode of thought. Both test I feel I answered the questions honestly. Oddly enough, slightly different numbers. I wonder if there is a trend to the curve to it related to ones mood and thinking pattern.

Your Type is
INTJ
Introverted Intuitive Thinking Judging
Strength of the preferences %
33 44 78 56


INTJ type description by D.Keirsey
INTJ type description by J. Butt and M.M. Heiss



Qualitative analysis of your type formula

You are:
moderately expressed introvert

moderately expressed intuitive personality

very expressed thinking personality

moderately expressed judging personality

[REL]

Famous INTJs:
Hannibal Lecter (Silence of the Lambs)

I am NOT eating and PEOPLE!

[Gary]

I've been known to nibble a little.