404a leak problem

[TONY_MF]

hi to all, do you have any knowledge on how to find the leak aside from water and soap?

[Latte]

Hi Tony,

It depends on what type of equipment. Generally, an Electronic leak detector would do, fairly reliable but worth paying the extra and getting a decent one.

Also if you have a problem on a large pack UV dye could be the answer. Once again, start up pack can be expensive but once you have got it you dont have to buy the lamps again.

Do you have a specific problem, R404 is not always easy to trace because of the high concentration of R134 in it and R134 is a real pain to find leaks with.

Let us know what sort of equipment you have the problem with and maybe we can give you a more specific answer to suit you requirments

Regards

Fatboy

[afeef]

dear
try this
www.refrigerantsales.com

and

www.car-air-conditioning-supplies.com
thanks

[TONY_MF]

Thanks fatboy and afeef,

the system is existing (freezer showcases). base on the records very month need to top up R404a. so i need to isolate the problem before we take over the service contract. right now i'm affraid to use any chemicals or dye beco'z i'm not sure if there is any reaction inside the system.
beco'z the

[dewars_aus]

I dislike dyes a lot due to previous experience with TX valves getting clogged by it. I dont know if newer dyes are any better since I've avoided it ever since, but may well have improved.

CPS brand make an electronic leak detector with a ramp scale (1-6) as well as the LED scale common to most detectors. This is easily the best leak detector I've owned as even with R404A it picks up leaks easily and reliably. If it doest, pressurise with N2O and retest. If you still cant find a leak, put some R22 in and then pressurise with N2O (*NOT* the other way around!). With the ramp scale you can really zero in on the leak until you pinpoint it and verify with BubbleUp (or just soap+water)

[NoNickName]

electronic leak detector are able to find a leak from my asshole too, therefore are generally unreliable.
I would suggest UV lamps together with a tracer to be injected in the refrigerant circuit.

[Carlo Hansen]

Hi TONY_MF

It is always difficult to find small leaks etc.
I set in a link, I think you can use this to define the catagories of leaking in refrigeration systems.

http://www.refrigtech.com/bigblumanual2.html

Best regards
Carlo Hansen

[Mickvee]

I have used a ultrasonic leak tester and found it to work well in areas where there is a high back ground level of refigerant. It detects the sound wave of the leak, hence can detect any escapeing gas.

[Rubba]

hi, i presume you narrowed the search down? ie filled the sys with nitrogen,and valve off everything (that you can attach gauges to ) also i find a product called Go-Tec leak spray-bubbles up and finds smaller leaks than soapy water,which you shouldnt be using technically anyway!electronic leak detecters that i have come across are no better than when i use my ears!

[goodguy]

Tony MF, I also have had troubles with leak dye, Plugged check valves TXV's. In my opinion, it should be only be used in automotive Industry. If possible shut the showcases down and put a good nitrogen pressure on it and leak check with a good quality leak soap, as others have already recommended.
Good luck

[taz24]

hi to all, do you have any knowledge on how to find the leak aside from water and soap?

From experience I would.

Be methodical and check everything.
You may have lots of small leaks rather than one big one.
Use a good reputable leak detector and leak check all the case pipe runs and units.
Check for safety blow offs.
Check air offs and check the drains as well (refrigerant falls).
Turn off the systems and let the pressure rise then leak check.
Prove all the cases are sound and check the TEV's and evap returns.
Again be methodical and check everything then check it again.
I personally do not like dyes of any type, you will find all the leaks if you are systematic in your checks.

Good luck.
taz.

[Pooh]

I do not beleive in the world today there are people leak testing using nitrogen and R22, if you did that in Europe you would be in court before you knew what had happened. A good quality electronic leak detector should find the leak I have used a Javac Tekmate for the last 5 years and other than routinely changing the sensor it has been brilliant, would recommend to anyone, I have thrown numerous CPS ones at the wall over the years cos they are C__P.

Ian

[lana]

Hi Tony,

taz24 is right.

Be methodical and check everything.
You may have lots of small leaks rather than one big one.

Once I was working on a unit with R407C which had leak.
It took me 2 hours to find it. It was incredibly small leak on the receiver sight glass.
You need patience and time.
Also, only use N2.
Good Luck
Cheers

[Leo1967]

we had a problem with a water chiller,for almost a year i've been looking for a leak with electronic "sniffers" and soapy water (the system takes 95ks of 407c).
Finally we bought a ultrasonic detector and within two hours i found four small leaks,all of them in the condenser.Usually you would see stains but not in this case plus all the leaks were on the inside pipes(the condenser is five pipes deep).
The leak detector costs about 400E a lot less than 95 kg of 407!

[NoNickName]

Leo, could you please let me know the brand and type of detector? I tried a similar device, but with no successful results. (Private Msg in Italian if you prefer)

[Peter_1]

Leo, if you don't mind to post it also here so that we all can learn?