Results 1 to 17 of 17
-
03-04-2007, 10:27 PM #1
environmentally safe and more efficient?
http://www.es-refrigerants.com/produ...ts/default.asp
Has anyone used these refrigerants before? They claim to be environmentally friendly and more efficient. However, it sounds too good to be true and no OEM is using it.
They appear to be mixtures since they are to be liquid charged.
"If Hannah was an air handler, I would be a condensing unit so I could open her TXV and pump my refrigerant through her coils." - a HVAC friend of mine
-
03-04-2007, 10:44 PM #2
Re: environmentally safe and more efficient?
Being a hydrocarbon I would think that the 'home' user market is a bit limited.
Brian - Newton Abbot, Devon, UK
Retired March 2015
-
03-04-2007, 11:30 PM #3
Re: environmentally safe and more efficient?
Looks a bit like either Isobutane or Propane looking at the data sheets.
Ian
-
03-04-2007, 11:44 PM #4
Re: environmentally safe and more efficient?
They'll be using lighter fluid soon
Brian - Newton Abbot, Devon, UK
Retired March 2015
-
04-04-2007, 12:22 AM #5
Re: environmentally safe and more efficient?
Brian
as long as they do not start using whisky they can do what they want.
Ian
-
04-04-2007, 02:27 AM #6
Re: environmentally safe and more efficient?
It is a Iso-Butane / Propane mix, another type I've seen was a mix of R-134a and Propane. I have a nifty PDF on it
If interested I can email it to thoughs interested, unfortunately too big to put here
-
08-04-2007, 05:30 AM #7
Re: environmentally safe and more efficient?
Is it actually more efficient?
"If Hannah was an air handler, I would be a condensing unit so I could open her TXV and pump my refrigerant through her coils." - a HVAC friend of mine
-
08-04-2007, 06:39 AM #8
Re: environmentally safe and more efficient?
Being propane has a lower head pressure it uses less power for a given amount. I'll have to do a comparison in a A/C.
-
08-04-2007, 07:55 PM #9
Re: environmentally safe and more efficient?
Hi everybody,
If these refrigerants contain Propane and ... aren't they flammable?
CheersEven Einstein Asked Questions
-
08-04-2007, 08:19 PM #10
Re: environmentally safe and more efficient?
So what? All refrigerants are flammable when in a system due to oil any way? Are we so ragingly incompetent that we really need to worry? Only way it'll go up is if the building is on fire and frankly at that point it really is a moot issue any way, no?
-
08-04-2007, 08:35 PM #11
Re: environmentally safe and more efficient?
Hi, The MG Pony
When they are in system we do not have any problem .
If the building is on fire it is time to run away , but
with flammable refrigerants we have problem if there is a leak on system and with simple click on light switch/door bell we can have explosion.
Anyhow I support use of HC as refrigerants of course with proper equipment and all safety measures. Maybe with some restriction for home DIY maestros
Let's hear other members here.
Best regards, Josip
It's impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious...
Don't ever underestimate the power of stupid people when they are in large groups.
Please, don't teach me how to be stupid....
No job is as important as to jeopardize the safety of you or those that you work with.
-
08-04-2007, 10:41 PM #12
Re: environmentally safe and more efficient?
I think the most that HCs are used in the UK is for domestic refrigerators.
Brian - Newton Abbot, Devon, UK
Retired March 2015
-
08-04-2007, 10:56 PM #13
Re: environmentally safe and more efficient?
And Europe.
Josip, you are indeed correct hence why I ask, Are we so bad at building/ designing this most be a worry? and that even in such cases air flow and such ensures no flammability, you simply loose the charge, any thing short of a catastrophic failure of a joint or pipe will not form a combustible mixture of such a degree one would need to worry in a real world setting.
-
09-04-2007, 11:48 AM #14
Re: environmentally safe and more efficient?
Dear The MG Pony,
I have contacted their representative and the first thing they asked me was :
What is the charge for your system and what is the application?
I asked : what do need this for?
Reply : We have to look at the chart and tell you if it is safe for your system. For some applications there is a charge limit which you can use according to the safety standards.
Best regards
LANAEven Einstein Asked Questions
-
09-04-2007, 08:59 PM #15
Re: environmentally safe and more efficient?
Yes I know and am aware of this, they limmit the charge to 150Kg or 150G pending the aplication. Yet again though it is over protection, if the system is well built and has a means of safely burning off the charge there is no reason for it, with well don electrical it all should be air tight and water tight any way being from a very wet climate it is only good sense. Again any thing is only as safe as the person using it.
-
09-04-2007, 09:27 PM #16
Re: environmentally safe and more efficient?
Originally Posted by The MG Pony
In some instances the air tight/water tight argument doesn't hold water if you will pardon the pun. It is up to the facilities insurance company to determine whether they can use the equivalent of NEMA-4 purged panels or if they have to use explosion proof panels. A very big difference.
From the presentation of your arguments it appears you are trying to justify doing something different than what the safety codes require.
Originally Posted by The MG PonyIf all else fails, ask for help.
-
09-04-2007, 10:14 PM #17
Re: environmentally safe and more efficient?
Exactly No by my arguments I am saying all work should exceed the codes requirements no matter the system, if one can do a job that exceeds the code with out making the price insurmountable then it should be don. I try to build every thing to handle heavy abuse and to be solid, far to many things now days are designed to be throw-en away, where I like to make things that can be repaired for the next 50++ years and be safe even in a fire (well as best one can any ways).