R-417a(nu-22)

[com4t4u]

Im looking for some input on this new drop in replacement for R-22. Has anyone used this new refrigerant? From the research we have done on it, its cooling capacity relitive to R-22 is about 76%. Does anyone know what compressor manufactureres have to say about it?

I would appreciate any information. Thanks.

[Dan]

As I understand it its capacity, pressures andCOP's are quite similar to R22. It is a terniary blend of some pentafloruethane, tetrafloruaethane and n-butane according to a fact sheet I found. My question is this:

Why?

[Prof Sporlan]

R-417A is a blend of R-125/R-134a/R-600, 46.6/50.0/3.4 percent by mass. The Prof has a P-T chart on it published by ICOR at the office. R-417A has dew point pressures between R-22 and R-134a, and one can expect to have some problems maintaining superheat with this refrigerant using R-22 TEVs. R-500 TEVs may work ok with this refrigerant.

"Drop-in replacement" is another hvac/r term the Prof has problems with....

[Andy]

I think what Dan is saying is why would anyone consider replacing R22 in an existing plant at the moment when R22 is going down in price and the drop-ins cost a lot more, leak more, reduce the effeciency of the plant and just give you hassle fitting and setting valves and controls.
Regards. Andy.

[com4t4u]

Thanks for all your inputs guys. Im not going to use the refrigerant myself, but I would like to know as much as I can so when I am asked by customers I can let them know all the reasons why I don't recommend using NU-22. I have a few reasons already, but Im sure there are more out there. I myself would recommend putting in a Puron system.

Brian,

[Dan]

Thanks Andy. Marc can be rough on me sometimes. The professor was kind enough and wise enough to provide new information. I simply wondered why R22 would already have something advertising itself as a drop-in. I am not privy to legislation in various countries, for example.

I know that many parts of Europe are much more aggressive than the USA regarding banishing Chlorine compounds. I just assumed that a system designed to operate with R22 would never be a candidate for a drop in.

I simply cannot imagine what ICOR has in mind. No manufacturer is going to design the next generation of equipment around an R22 equivalent. That's already in the bag.

R22 is easily now and easily in the next ten years the least expensive refrigerant available for the market it serves... unless somebody can tell me otherwise... I am looking at gasoline prices go up and I do not feel at all smug about predicting things.

I have this sense that somebody knows something that I don't. If a manufacturer is advertising a drop in replacement for the most inexpensive and reasonably efficient refrigerant in use today, I would like to know why.

[Dan]

It just struck me. The future of refrigeration will embrace designs that take advantage of what we call "glide."

[Frosty]

Hi guys

I always find the words 'drop in' to be totally confusing. Manufacturers often neglect to tell you that they are only suitable for DX systems.

A couple of years ago, we were asked to change the R22 from a CO2 liquifier. After speaking to the manufacturer of the refrigerant (no names, no pact drills, ahem) we were told, "Yes no problems...drops straight in....slight fall in capacity, but a small gain in COsP"

The refrigerant I'm talkin about is R59.....seems to work ok - ish in DX systems....but a total disaster in flooded CO2 liquifiers. Reduction of some 25% liquid CO2, but, more importantly, oil floats to the top!!!! Goodbye oil recovery!!

Anyway, cut a long story short, don't always assume that these so called drop ins are the answer - get as much info as you can before committing!

Frosty

PS - I've heard a rumour that there is an R22 substitute suitable for flooded systems....anyone care to comment?

[Prof Sporlan]

The refrigerant I'm talkin about is R59

R-417A, aka, NU-22 (ICOR designation) is aka ISCEON 59 (Rhone-Poulenc trade name), and if memory serves correctly, has been referred to as simply refrigerant R-59. We may be talking the same refrigerant???

[Frosty]

We possibly are Prof, many thanx for that. I'll check 2morrow.

Frosty

[zolar1]

Maybe ICOR is using a marketing ploy - mix R22 & R134a, call it NU-22, and jack the price up 150% to make a buck? Or are they trying to pacify the EPA because of the trouble with them releasing CFC's & HCFC's "accidentally"?

[Timothy J. Fox]

We had a customer request to use the NU-22 replacement refrigerant in our equipment (refrigerated compressed air dryers). After checking with Copeland Corporation, I discovered that they will not authorize the use of this blend in their compressors. They claim that it washes the lubricants from the bearing surfaces, leading to bearing failure.