Frick XJF/XJS 120 compressors

[404cab]

Hi guys,

we are experiencing early break downs on some of our Frick compressors.
I opened them and overhauled few of them, the reason of the break down is coming from the balance piston on the male thrust bearing, it is getting stuck in pushed position.

I was wondering if we could connect oil pressure on the balance piston, there is connections available on the housing but it is not used.

Units are working with R507, I can send pictures if people are familiar with these compressors.

Regards

[NH3LVR]

I was writing on another thread as you wrote this about the virtues of Frick Compressors.
My experience with these has mostly been limited to External Service and Controls.
But I would like to see the pictures if you want to post them.

[404cab]

Hi,

wanted to post the pictures for you to see but size is too big, I will have to wait until I come back home to reduce them and dowload it again.
I think you took my comments for the Frick compressor in the bad way. I never said that Frick compressor were bad, I have had the chance to work for York for many years and part of our units were with Frick screws, I started these units , I am overhauling them now, and the Frick compressor are quiet strong, specialy the TDSH, but I have also worked a lot on Stal compressor and their design is much younger and I think much more simple.
I have had the chance also to visit their factory in Waynesboro and to meet some of the nice people you was talking about.


This Post is related to the Frick XJF 120 because they have made changes on the design of the rotors and thrust bearing mounting, it seems that it is not working for our units, we have compressors that are 10 years old and are running perfectly but some of the new design compressor are breaking down at 25 000 running hours.

[NH3LVR]

I apologies if I seemed like I was being harsh. It was just a coincidence you were posting as I was replying. I have had some experience withe TDSH as well and found them to be fine machines. I am not all that familiar with the newer models. Most of the Frick work I have done has been on the Panels and other Externals.
Am looking forward to seeing the pictures when you are able to post them.

[absrbrtek]

The TDSH is a good compressor. Straight forward, 2 rotors, no gears, very dependable. Ive seen them with 80,000 to 100,000 hours on them and still running fine. I've overhauled these and they are very well built.

The XJF/S compressors have problems. They take the specific length rotor and use several different gear ratios to increase the compressors volume by speeding it up and increasing the motor HP. If you get 50,000 hours on it you have a winner. Ive dissasembled these and they are pretty much a disposable compressor. Unless its just a minor slide valve repair or a seal they usualy are not worth the time to repair or overhaul.

On another note, the XJS was the compressor modified by York to be a hermetic screw on their aircooled screw chillers. I can't count how many slide valve failures I have seen on these. Its usually the slide stuck full open. Only repair is replace the compressor at around $20,000US cost. York will not sell the compressor parts to contractors. They also had an agreement with Frick not to sell internal parts.

[404cab]

DSCN1039.JPG

balance_pistong_neg_1_compressor.JPG

hi guys,

here are the pictures of what I am talking about.
You can see that the oil/grease on the balance piston looks like burned, and the spring is getting stuck.

Has anybody seen that also ???

Regards

[Andy]

Hi 404cab

I have never worked on this type of Frick, but here's my 10 cents worth

Burnt oil and carbon always gathers in this area on any compressor, piston or screw
The fault is probably due to the oil cooling on the screw pack, will also be affected by the quality of the oil used in the installation, the type and level of the oil filtration and just how clean the installation was in the first place

Kind Regards Andy

[404cab]

Hi Andy,

The oil use is the York "H" oil so I don't think it is the problem. Filters are changed on regular basis, we also check the filters delta p through the automat.

Yes, I agree about the oil cooling maybe it could come from that, but we are running on maximum 85 deg C discharge temp, so it should be acceptable.

[lldelfin67]

Hi,
If you say the balance piston, you have a problem in your oil maintenance. If you want a good equipment you have to take care of the oil. The oil in the piston is sticky due to old oil in your compressor it will really became sticky cause the oil components will breakdown in time so you have to replace your oil yearly to improve the operation o the Frick screw compressor

Thanks

[404cab]

Regarding last post...
Almost fall of my chair....
It is easy to say this kind of thing seated in front of your computer.
But You probably have never open any of these compressors.
The problem is not related to maintenance, we are using York recommended oil, we have a very good maintenance program, with regular change of filters, regular oil analysis and vibration analysis.

But if you are still using the old type of XJF compressor with R22 or ammonia, you will never get this problem.

We already moved to HFC refrigerant and esther oil, and Frick has changed some things inside.

[Andy]

Regarding last post...
Almost fall of my chair....
It is easy to say this kind of thing seated in front of your computer.
But You probably have never open any of these compressors.
The problem is not related to maintenance, we are using York recommended oil, we have a very good maintenance program, with regular change of filters, regular oil analysis and vibration analysis.

But if you are still using the old type of XJF compressor with R22 or ammonia, you will never get this problem.

We already moved to HFC refrigerant and esther oil, and Frick has changed some things inside.

What about taking out the balance piston and sanding a little off it to loosen up the fit

maybe the tolerance is a little tight

Kind Regards Andy D

[la461]

As a newcomer to these forums I would like to join this thread. R-507 requires special o-ring compounds to prevent the material from breaking down and the improper o-ring will produce the goo that is being found around the balance piston. Buna-N and neoprene do not work with R-507 as well as viton. We have repaired many of these XJ 120 and XJ151 compressors and have had good success with the rebuilds. The main thing with these and other Frick compressors is the valve guides must be repaired to stop the slide valve from rubbing the rotors. The valve guides are often overlooked and the first vibration readings after start-up will show the male rotor contacting the slide vale at the same amplitude as the last reading before the compressor was repaired.

[tabreed717]

Dear la461
Thanks a lot for the useful explanation about the O-Rings.
Would you please give us more explanation about this sentence?

“The main thing with these and other Frick compressors is the valve guides must be repaired to stop the slide valve from rubbing the rotors”

I have noticed in many SABROE compressors that the vibration comes always from the slide valve when the compressor loads above 70%.
How would you repair the valve guide?
If I found the slide valve it self is rubbed, shall I replace it or there is a limit for the rubbing I can still use it?

I am really getting experience from these talks.

Thank you.

Tabreed,

[tabreed717]

You have also mentioned the following:
“Buna-N and neoprene do not work with R-507 as well as viton.
We have repaired many of these XJ 120 and XJ151 compressors and have had good success with the rebuilds”

Would you please tell us which type of O-rings can be used with R507?

[CanadianIce]

Hi guys

I've haven't stripped an XJ 151 yet but I have done several TDSH and XJ 120. I don't recall seeing a guide block in these compressors. At least not the same as you would find in a Mycom or Howden.

Tabreed717- I think you will find Viton orings will work with R 507.

C Ice

[tabreed717]

Thanks CanadiaIce
Actually the one we have it here is XJF 120 using R717 and usually when the expert comes from JCI to perform the service he brings with him the full set of O-rings and gaskets, it was for my knowledge.
May I ask for the teardown manual of the XJF 95-120 if you have it please mail it of me.
Mods edit - don't put private information on the forum - contact by PM

[la461]

Since Frick compressors have no guide block to center the slide valve they depend on the valve guides cast in the discharge head. On a compressor that loads/unloads frequently causes wear on these guides and the wear allows the slide valve to twist and eventually the seal strips will contact the slide valve causing wear on the strips/slide valve causing a rise in the vibration readings. If the compressor is repaired and the valve guides are not repaired the slide valve will continue rubbing the rotors at start up and will continue wearing the strips/guide valve causing the compressor to lose capacity and pre-mature fasilure of the rebuild.

[la461]

Please excuse my misspelled words. I type at the lightening speed of 8 words a minute on a good day.

[la461]

We have the Valve guides welded to build up the worn area and then machine them back to original +.003'' to allow for wear on the slide valve if it is re-used. You can get the original measurement from the edge of the valve guide that is not contacted by the slide valve to the gas seal area and continue that measurement for the radius of the gas seal to the edge of the valve guide surface goint towards the high center point.

[CanadianIce]

Hi la461

That is great information. Thank you for the detailed explanation. You are correct, most peopke do not get these guides built up. I have a 163 apart now, I'll have a look.

C Ice

[fovefa]

I need the Manual XHS120CS46Q please
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[coolcustomer]

Hi all, could I please have a manual for the XHS120 as well?
Thanks in advance.