Searle cellar cooler

[cold as ice]

Hi guys,
Whilst out tonight in my local, the landlord asked if I would have a look at his cellar cooler.
As my work is mainly AC I wondered if any of you would know from experiance what is likely to be wrong....
The indoor unit is completely frosted over and I notice the outdoor unit is very hot.
Your help would be gratefully appreciated.

[taz24]

Hi guys,
Whilst out tonight in my local, the landlord asked if I would have a look at his cellar cooler.
As my work is mainly AC I wondered if any of you would know from experiance what is likely to be wrong....
The indoor unit is completely frosted over and I notice the outdoor unit is very hot.
Your help would be gratefully appreciated.

Cellar coolers ice up if the gas charge is low or if the the control is set wrong. They somtimes are expected to work harder than they are designed for eg doors open, extra heat load such as remote eight beer coolers and such like. I would start deforting the coil by turning off the unit and allowing the evap to run on. When the coil is defrosted check the gas charge. If the compressor was showing signs of flooding back such as ice on the body of the comp then I would tend to look at just a defrost problem. If as you say the comp is hot then that can be an indication that there is not enough gas inthe system to cool the comp down. Check the gas levels and leak test.

Cheers taz.

[Abe]

is it completely frosted over, hard coating of ice

[cold as ice]

thanks guys for your help-
the evaporator coil is covered in what looks like soft snow. Pipework entering the unit has hard ice on it

[taz24]

Thick solid ice laid down for days even weeks indicates that there is a defrost problem. The system runs on not defrosting corectly and over a period of time the system ices up untill it fails. If the ice is soft and snowy it could mean several things but I would defrost the coil and check the gas level.
Systems like this ice up if short of gas because the TEV opens fully trying to bring the suction superheat down. There is not enough gas in the system so the back pressure is lower, lower pressure means lower temp and what little bit of gas there is left boils off in the first part of the evap at very low temps.

Defrost the coil and check the gas level.

Cheers taz.

[chillin out]

Is the coil clean?

Is the thermostat set too low?

Make sure the fans are turning the correct way.

Make sure the fans are not off when the cond unit is still running.

Chillin

[jamcool]

Can I risk it and say,Do the same checks you would do if it were an A/C unit.

[cold as ice]

Does anyone know where I could find some manufactures instructions for this unit?
Problem is there is no details on the inside unit as regards model etc.
If I had some guildlines to work to ie
Wheres the control stat? Is this built into the indoor unit or is it the one on the wall that also has a electric fanheater connected to it?
Theres a solenoid valve just behind the indoor unit- whats its function? is this used to provide a defrost function, and could it be that it's this thats faulty- tested supply to coil on solenoid got 230 volts on it, but dont know if valve is actuating....
Ive tried getting info from Searle's website but there dont appear to be anything this old listed!
thanks

[old gas bottle]

if theres a digital display on the cooler thats often the controler asswell,just press the set button to check the setting [about 50 degs F] otherwise there will be a manual type thermostat behind the cooler cover that operates the solinoid valve [pump down],if its old the stat might be on the wall somewhere, look up the back of the cooler first and see if its gunged up and restricting the air flow, probley never had a service, give it some coil cleaner and a jet wash,same for the outdoor,sounds like thats blocked too,cover your electrical bits[motors etc], if that doesent do it then move onto fault finding,atleast it will have had a good service.

[cold as ice]

theres no controls on the indoor unit- only a stat on the wall with a fan heater attached- what is the function of the fan heater is that used to defrost unit?
when the unit has been off and has had time to defrost- the Evap coil appears to be clean - ie I mean you can see light through it!

[old gas bottle]

the fan heater is used for frost protection in the cellar or to keep the temp dropping to low for the beer,there often is not a defrost system on older units which it sounds like, thats why the coils need to be clean, as the other guys said,check the sight glass make sure its clear,check the thermostat works and that it does pump down and shut the outdoor unit off, a failure to do that would cause your problem,i would still clean the coils, you should be getting somewhere then.you may need to fit a off cycle defrost timer but i would do those bits first.

[Electrocoolman]

Hi Cold as Ice,
If unit is very old you should be looking for a mechanical thermostat. The stat on the wall connected to the fan heater could very well be the system 'stat....does it have change over contacts? It might have a large neutral 'off' zone. Beer cellars do sometimes have a heating as well as cooling requirement for winter/summer operation....so that it doesn't get too cold in winter. The solenoid is for pump down and should be connected to the thermostat. Have you tried to trace the wiring and/or operate the thermostat to see if sol'nd valve clicks? Have you looked to see if evaporator is electric defrost or ambient? The presence of the fan heater suggests no heater(s) are fitted to evap unit so it will be an ambient defrost with fan running continuously.

Is there a timeclock....how are the defrosts initiated? Does the sol'nd valve connect to the timeclock? (ie. is it used for defrost control only). If you cannot find any other thermostat then it is possible that the temperature is controlled by the LP switch only (using large hysteresis). Have you checked the LP switch (on the condensing unit) is not stuck on?

Is unit frosting back at all? Is compressor short cycling or running continuously? Have you tried disconnecting the power from the sol'nd valve to see what happens....does condensing unit stop? (It should). NB. dont just remove coil from valve with power on as it will soon burn out.

Good luck...hope this helps

Adrian

[bernard]

Hi

Defrost and wash evap coil,then run unit and monitor temp,you are trying to achieve 12 c.

The stat you mention will be dual stat,the heater will operate in if cellar is to cold.

I,ve replaced a lot of these old systems with qualitair and marstair,they dont need a defrost cycle,as previously mentioned they will ice up if short of gas or the door is left open,the kitchen staff use it as a food fridge and are constantly in and out.

New systems evap fans run constantly to stop hot spots,your unit fan will probably switch off.

Don,t look to deep


Regards Bernard

[1torr]

Is it a Danfoss RT stat.If it is it could be a 2 stage stat with dead zone.If every thing is clean and working ok it could be just set too cold.Should be 12 deg C.

[clivet]

There was a posting on this site a year or so ago addresing this very problem, it seems that the cellar cooler in the vic was fitted with a door switch so that every time Kat & Alfie were pictured by the open door the fan was off and no refrigeration was taking place. A smart move by the BBC proving that they are environmentally aware.

[ARNL]

Hi everybody this is my first post so excuse any mistakes please.

The stat on the wall is the sensor for the cellar and controls the out-door unit, it shouldn't have a fan heater attached though. (Eeeek)
Is the indoor unit electric defrost ? or is it set to run perminant ?

[DavyMac]

Does anyone know where I could find some manufactures instructions for this unit?
Problem is there is no details on the inside unit as regards model etc.

Ive tried getting info from Searle's website but there dont appear to be anything this old listed!
thanks

Searle manufactures a range of beer cellar cooling equipment for distribution through Climate Center, part of Wolseley UK. They may have the Information your looking for.

[cold as ice]

Thanks guys for your help.
Im hoping to have a look at the system this weekend, so Ill check ev erything out you guys have said to look for.
thanks again.

[refrep]

as engineers we tend to forget abt the history of the equipment! Ask! last time serviced who & what was replaced sometimes engineers do not marry up units to evaps & do not change ex valves & forget abt orifices.What refrigerants r on!11:15 coming of evaporator on guages as previous replys it is always well to check good luck1

[mgpperera]

please help me to get the servise manual for VOGT tube ice machine, model : 1800- A18 CA335, serial no: 9980113.

thanks,

Gamini