Smoking and the Law

[frank]

I was told a story today by a friend who has his own company.

We all know that there is a No Smoking law being introduced in England next September which will make it an offence to smoke in bars, restaurants, cinemas etc., but I was not aware that this is currently the law in Scotland.

Anyhow, my friend was telling me that one of his employees was driving a company van up to Scotland to do a job and he was stopped for speeding soon after crossing the border into Scotland.

When he was stopped he was smoking a cigarette and the police did him for both speeding and for smoking in the workplace.
Apparently, company cars and vans are classed as workspace under the new legislation.

Any thoughts Abe?

[al]

Frank

The irish ban was introduced under HSA regs so smoking was banned in all workplaces...... thats bars, shops and company vans/cars........works a treat!!

Al

[Abe]

Frank

Smoking
Chapter 1
Smoke-free Premises, Places And Vehicles
Introduction
1 Introduction
(1) This Chapter makes provision for the prohibition of smoking in certain premises, places and vehicles which are smoke-free by virtue of this Chapter.(2) In this Chapter—
(a) “smoking” refers to smoking tobacco or anything which contains tobacco, or smoking any other substance, and(b) smoking includes being in possession of lit tobacco or of anything lit which contains tobacco, or being in possession of any other lit substance in a form in which it could be smoked.
(3) In this Chapter, “smoke” and other related expressions are to be read in accordance with subsection (2).
NOTES
Initial Commencement
To be appointed

This section shall come into force, in relation to Wales, on such day as the National Assembly for Wales may by order appoint: see s 83(4)(a).
This section shall come into force, in relation to England, on such day as the Secretary of State may by order appoint: see s 83(7).

..........................

5 Vehicles
(1) The appropriate national authority may make regulations providing for vehicles to be smoke-free.(2) The regulations may in particular make provision—
(a) for the descriptions of vehicle which are to be smoke-free,(b) for the circumstances in which they are to be smoke-free,(c) for them to be smoke-free only in specified areas, or except in specified areas,(d) for exemptions.
(3) The power to make regulations under this section is not exercisable in relation to—
(a) any ship or hovercraft in relation to which regulations could be made under section 85 of the Merchant Shipping Act 1995 (c 21) (safety and health on ships), including that section as applied by any Order in Council under section 1(1)(h) of the Hovercraft Act 1968 (c 59), or(b) persons on any such ship or hovercraft.
(4) In section 85 of the Merchant Shipping Act 1995, at the end add—
“(8) Safety regulations which make provision in respect of the prohibition of smoking on any ship (“the smoking provisions”) may include provision—
(a) for the appointment by the Secretary of State of persons to enforce the smoking provisions (whether in respect of ships generally or for any particular case or purpose), and for the removal of any person so appointed,(b) for such persons (if they are not surveyors of ships appointed under section 256) to have the powers of such surveyors for the purposes of their enforcement functions,(c) for any such persons to have, for the purposes of their enforcement functions, powers corresponding to those which authorised officers have under paragraphs 2(b) to (e), 3 and 4, as read with paragraphs 5 and 9, of Schedule 2 to the Health Act 2006 (which confers powers of entry, etc, on authorised officers of enforcement authorities in relation to the enforcement of the provisions of that Act in relation to smoking),(d) in relation to an offence of smoking in a place where smoking is prohibited under the smoking provisions, for purposes corresponding to those of section 9 of and Schedule 1 to the Health Act 2006 (which provide for the giving by authorised officers of penalty notices in respect of such an offence).
In this subsection, “smoking” has the same meaning as in Chapter 1 of Part 1 of the Health Act 2006.”
(5) In this Chapter, “vehicle” means every type of vehicle, including train, vessel, aircraft and hovercraft.

[Latte]

Frank,

The company i work for i based in Scotland, so when i picked the van up there were no smoking stickers on it everywhere. Needless to say i have never driven Edinburgh to Gretna so quickly.

Someone did tell me once that if youre journey includes going into scotland then you are also not meant to spoke. If this is the case thats not going to happen. 7 hour straight drive from Newmarket to Edinburgh with out a fag - I DONT THINK SO.

You would think the scots would be a bit more considerate and build a few more service areas on the M74

Regards

fatboy

[Brian_UK]

Having just read Abe's reply I would have to say - "Understood every word,...zzzzzzzz"

[Andy P]

Frank -- it's all true, but I did hear that when the Irish introduced the smoking ban it didn't apply to buses, so one enterprising landlord bought a double decker and parked it outside his pub so the smoky members of his clientele could take their beers onto the bus. Now that may not be true - like the great Irish plan to switch to driving on the right, which was to be phased in over a month: week 1 the motorbikes switch, week 2 - cars, week 3 buses and taxis and then week 4 all the HGVs.

cheers
Andy P

[Josip]

Hi, Andy_P

Frank -- it's all true, but I did hear that when the Irish introduced the smoking ban it didn't apply to buses, so one enterprising landlord bought a double decker and parked it outside his pub so the smoky members of his clientele could take their beers onto the bus. Now that may not be true - like the great Irish plan to switch to driving on the right, which was to be phased in over a month: week 1 the motorbikes switch, week 2 - cars, week 3 buses and taxis and then week 4 all the HGVs.

cheers
Andy P

Great plan, can you, please, tell us more about As I can see the biggest problem will be to switch motorbikes
to the right

That month I think it will be better to stay at home

But I can tell you, we have a lot of problems here either, with switching lanes (after couple of beers/vine) a lot of drivers use to drive on the left lane -yes, in opposite way, gives you feeling you are in UK or some other countries driving on the left


Best regards, Josip

[frank]

Great replies

Keep 'em comin'

[Peter_1]

Belgium situation, all public places like railway stations, train, libraries, clinics, it's forbidden to smoke.

Since beginning this year, it's also forbidden to smoke inside all the factories, even the boss may not smoke his cigarette in his own office, even if he's alone.

End this year, it will become forbidden to smoke in all places where you can eat, unless there's a special room for only smokers where they all can sit together..

[al]

Andy

Smoking was banned in the eighties........pubs can have a "smoking" room so long as there is no roof many have taken to installing gas heaters and outside is more popular than inside pity they can't ban the smell of lod farts though.........

Al

[frank]

End this year, it will become forbidden to smoke in all places where you can eat, unless there's a special room for only smokers where they all can sit together..

I don't know how true it is but I was also told that if you (as a company) designate an outdoor area for the smokers to smoke in, it then becomes a "workplace" under the regulations and therefore you are not allowed to smoke in it .

Vicious circle come to mind.

By the way, I'm a non smoker.

[WebRam]

I was told a story today by a friend who has his own company.

We all know that there is a No Smoking law being introduced in England next September which will make it an offence to smoke in bars, restaurants, cinemas etc., but I was not aware that this is currently the law in Scotland.

Anyhow, my friend was telling me that one of his employees was driving a company van up to Scotland to do a job and he was stopped for speeding soon after crossing the border into Scotland.

When he was stopped he was smoking a cigarette and the police did him for both speeding and for smoking in the workplace.
Apparently, company cars and vans are classed as workspace under the new legislation.

Any thoughts Abe?

Frank the short answer is yes, thats correct. Work places include company transport.

[Abe]

These curbs on smoking have been enacted under the Health Act 2006 and received Royal assent on 16 July 2006 I think.

The smoking in vehicles comes under Article 5 of the statute. Usually the Act kicks in a year after the Bill receives its assent.

So it should become enforceable next year I reckon. We should start getting publicity soon to gear up citizens on the requirements.

I can see work vehicles like vans being targeted , but given our larger population cant as yet figure out how enforceable it will be.

Probably police will target the larger HGV's to start off with.

[winfred.dela]

Belgium situation, all public places like railway stations, train, libraries, clinics, it's forbidden to smoke.

Since beginning this year, it's also forbidden to smoke inside all the factories, even the boss may not smoke his cigarette in his own office, even if he's alone.

End this year, it will become forbidden to smoke in all places where you can eat, unless there's a special room for only smokers where they all can sit together..

Being in East Asia & have a hard time understanding some western laws and traditions,

am just asking:

(1) Can smokers demand their right to smoke?

Or say . . .

(2) Publicly rally due to discrimination against smokers?

[MTKkeefy]

Banning smoking in HGV's..... imagine the tacograph?!?

[Abe]

Banning smoking in HGV's..... imagine the tacograph?!?

tachograph or spy in the cab
its introduction was resisted but european requirements prevailed

[timh1970]

If you have insurance that covers Social Domestic and Pleasure as well as work use then all you have to say to the police is that it is their duty to prove that you were working at the time.

Provided that you say that the vehicle is used for private use as well as work use then the burden of proof is on them unless the rule of innocent until proven guilty is different in Scotland. They are likely to challenge you, but as long as you stick to your guns they cannot prosecute.

If you are not using your vehicle for work purposes than it is not your place of work, even if you are doing somebody a favour.

It’s always worth challenging traffic police as they are renowned for their vindictive, malicious prosecutions, however they are under orders not to attempt to bring a case if it is going to cost more to prosecute than can possibly be recouped by the fine.

Either that or you could give up smoking!

[Scott_becks]

well in australia smoking is banned to all parts of pubs, except one communal smoking room, no smoking at the workplace (not sure if it includes vans??) and all cafe's and any indoor area has a smoking ban.. even some of the beaches are smoke free...

[frank]

If you have insurance that covers Social Domestic and Pleasure as well as work use then all you have to say to the police is that it is their duty to prove that you were working at the time.

Provided that you say that the vehicle is used for private use as well as work use then the burden of proof is on them unless the rule of innocent until proven guilty is different in Scotland. They are likely to challenge you, but as long as you stick to your guns they cannot prosecute.

If you are not using your vehicle for work purposes than it is not your place of work, even if you are doing somebody a favour.

It’s always worth challenging traffic police as they are renowned for their vindictive, malicious prosecutions, however they are under orders not to attempt to bring a case if it is going to cost more to prosecute than can possibly be recouped by the fine.

Either that or you could give up smoking!

Thats all well and good but the first question they ask you when stopped is 'Is this your vehicle Sir?'

If you say 'No it belongs to the Company I work for' then you are stuffed

[timh1970]

Thats all well and good but the first question they ask you when stopped is 'Is this your vehicle Sir?'

If you say 'No it belongs to the Company I work for' then you are stuffed

If you "borrowed" it from work for private use then it is not you're place of work. It can still belong to your work and be your works van without being "the workplace".

[piston broke]

I thought banning smoking in Scotlands pubs would never work but it does. The air is clean and your clothes don't stink.

Also, there's a whole new culture with people standing chatting outside pubs and restaraunts whilst having a fag.

I was thinking of taking up smoking to be more sociable and not miss out on the gossip.

PB

[timh1970]

I thought banning smoking in Scotlands pubs would never work but it does. The air is clean and your clothes don't stink.

Also, there's a whole new culture with people standing chatting outside pubs and restaraunts whilst having a fag.

I was thinking of taking up smoking to be more sociable and not miss out on the gossip.

PB

I gave up smoking 2 years ago of my own free will, but the way that this government is treating us all like it is our teachers at school is almost tempting me to start again just to spite them.

[Abe]

This is from the New Zealand Herald

Smoking in cars a danger to children, say researchers

12.35pm Friday October 27, 2006

The government should consider banning smoking in cars where children are present, as it could damage the youngsters' lungs, medical researchers say.

A Wellington School of Medicine report published today found being in a car with a smoker was equivalent to sitting in a typical smoky bar, even with the smoker's window wound fully down.

With all the windows wound up, the pollution was at least twice as bad as sitting in the smokiest bar, the researchers said.

The study measured the amount of particulates in a car while the front seat passenger smoked a cigarette.

Particulates are tiny airborne particles which can enter the body, and have been associated with negative health effects in previous studies of air pollution.

Public health lecturer Richard Edwards said on a very smoggy day in Auckland, particulate levels were between 35-40 micrograms per cubic metre.

In a car where someone was smoking with their window down the particulate level was 199 micrograms per cubic metre.

With all the windows up, the level skyrocketed to 2926 micrograms per cubic metre.

Dr Edwards said the School of Medicine was calling on the government to consider a law aimed at halting smoking in cars with children.

The practice was already banned in some areas of the United States, and was being considered in New South Wales, he said.

"There's lots of evidence that second hand smoke causes respiratory illnesses in children, so given that the levels are high, then you'd expect (parents) are exposing their children to health risks."

The particulates research follows another study released by the School of Medicine last month, which observed 16,000 cars in Wellington over a two-week period.

A smoker was present in four per cent of the cars, and of those a quarter were also carrying other occupants.

Researchers said that study was likely to have greatly underestimated the prevalence of smoking in cars.

[timh1970]

I suppose it depends whether you believe that the state should regulate your life or, like me, you are a libertarian and believe that the states' only duty is to protect life, liberty and property.

I cannot and will not support trying to force people to give up smoking just because I gave up.

[piston broke]

I suppose many would say that encouraging ppl to stop smoking is protecting life.

Anyways, who decides, there are far less harmfull drugs than nicotine that are illegal. I agree all responsible adults have the right to choose but the issue with smoking is that it affects others around you. I therefore agree that in public places and the workplace it should be outlawed.

Ruining your own health is your decision, ruining other ppls is a different matter.

PB

[Abe]

I suppose it depends whether you believe that the state should regulate your life or, like me, you are a libertarian and believe that the states' only duty is to protect life, liberty and property.

I cannot and will not support trying to force people to give up smoking just because I gave up.

With respect,
As a libertarian one should respect the liberty of others not to have the air they breathe polluted with smoke, smokers are not being forced not to smoke, they are being forced to respect the liberty of others.

Therein lies the difference.

[winfred.dela]

This is from the New Zealand Herald
Smoking in cars a danger to children, say researchers
12.35pm Friday October 27, 2006
. . . . .
"There's lots of evidence that second hand smoke causes respiratory illnesses in children, so given that the levels are high, then you'd expect (parents) are exposing their children to health risks."
. . . . . .

Thanks Abe for the info.

With the latest studies/research, it would be best to ban smoking in public places.
Or maybe a step further, to stop manufacturing cigarettes.
But, what would the smokers, planters & cigarette manufacturers do?

For me, it feels good to have decided to stop smoking years ago before we have a kid.
I would have felt guilty for any respiratory illness my kid will have.

On the other hand, those that are still smoking needs our understanding because it's not easy to quit.

[Abe]

Yes its a very difficult drug to wean off, ask me, I smoke as well.

I gave up cigarettes around 2 years ago and I still crave.
But hopefully we must do everything so the next generation does not go through what this generation went through.

If it means the cigarette manufacturers making less profit, so be it.