Pipeworking in the rain

[monkey spanners]

Got moaned at today for refusing to install pipework outside when it was raining. The rainwater was over the level of the pavement at times The (fridge) company we were working through couldn't see a problem with pipeing in the rain. Would really welcome your opinions.

Cheers Jon

[Peter_1]

Well, don't we have a vacuumpump for this?
Just joking of course.
The thread I started with the vacuumpump was in fact after serious troubles we encountered after we installed some pipes while it was heavy raining.
We had to install 5 dryers before all the moisture was gone although we had vacuumed it very well.

[Brian_UK]

Hi Jon

I'm with you 100%.

Try to explain your reasons, which should be relating to standards of workmanship, quality of finished product etc.

If not then tell them about the extra costs involved in removing the excess moisture that will be inside the pipework. As Peter says there will a lot of new driers required and an extended vacuuming session; this all costs money and who is going to pay ?

[US Iceman]

I'm in complete agreement with Brian & Peter. While installing the pipes in the rain is certainly not the ideal approach, I'm more concerned with the extended start-up and commisioning time. This is not free, and it might be coming out of the pocket of the poor guy who did what he was told to.

This can be done if it is that imperative to meet an installed date, but I would really dig my heels in to fight this if at all possible.

[chemi-cool]

Well, look at it this way, you can always use covers.

It sound better than doing pipe work in the sun while the ambient is 44°C!!

Run a lot of dry Nitrogen through and leave it with running vacuum pump for at least 48 hours.

Chemi

[davej]

fundamentally your right but time pressure dont always allow for down time. we have some large taupolins we use where possible to allow us to keep working. tha worry is if we do get moisture in the system will there be any sympathy for us for trying to keep going?

dont think so ,

[Latte]

Hi All ,

By the book, you probably shouldnt install pipework when its raining but that would mean you couldnt do any install work 8 months of the year.

Personally as long as the pipe ends are sealed to stop water going into them, OFN is blown through when solderinging. OFN in again when pressure and strength testing this should help take some of the moisture away when blowing off, new driers and vac out to 50 microns or a low as you can get it should be ok.

Obviously if you try to save time by not vacing out for long enough you are asking for trouble but you have to weigh up the extra time involved with longer vacs against the down time waiting for the weather to improve to fit the pipework. Either way its going to take longer when its wet.

Regards

Fatboy

[monkey spanners]

Cheers guys, thats what i wanted to hear.
It's an A/C install so no driers. They haven't got any power to it yet so they couldn't even run it if it was finished. We should get it done on monday as its meant to be drier
Still it did give us a chance to read the install instructions properly, in between cups of tea Its a panasonic under ceiling unit and something i learnt was that you mustn't silver solder any joints as the oil used will react badly with the flux, also florine will cause problems too. Soon we'll be like plumbers spending a day a month on training courses

Cheers Jon

[NH3LVR]

Hi Guys;
Was just browsing around a bit and saw this. I am usually on the Ammonia side, so I need a little help.
Which oil reacts with the flux you use? In the US we usually go with 15% Silver for Copper to Copper joints (Without Flux). Of course we must use flux for dissimilar metals.
But as I said, I do mostly Ammonia.
As to working in the rain, I will be doing that next week. In Alaska. It may be snowing however, which is generally better. Is 75F at home today-freezing most nights in Anchorage, so I get a little temp shock. The boss says it is good for me.
Nh3lvr

[US Iceman]

The boss says it is good for me.

If the cold is supposed to be good for you how come your boss is not going also?

Have a safe trip and enjoy the scenery.

[monkey spanners]

Hi NH3LVR
Its a R410A panasonic (daikin) system and i believe it runs on ether oil as this is what was recomended for oiling the flare connections. I use rothenburger S2 brazzing rods (copper/phos i think) on copper to copper joints with no flux and silver solder/flux on any disimilar metals. They also cautioned against any mineral oil entering the system. Have heard horror stories of vac pumps getting turned of and the vacuum pulling the pump oil into the system and causing failures.

The R410A fujitsu a/c we put in recently recomended HAB oil (hard akylbenzine? i think) for oiling flares, try buying that from NRS

Jon