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  1. #1
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    Recommendation to convert R22 equipment to R407


    hi all,
    I'm new in the FORUM and i would like to have some recommendations to switch some equipment from R22 to R 407. Is there any procedure or instructions to follow?
    Thanks in advance for your support
    regards



  2. #2
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    Re: Recommendation to convert R22 equipment to R407

    Contact one of the refrigerant manufactures such as EI DuPont. They generally have on line instructions for refrigerant retro fitting.

    You also need to check the compressor for elastomer compatability with R407 and the new POE oils. Motor windings may be a problem if you are using an semi-hermetic design.

    I recently ran across and older compressor that the manufacturer did not support the compressor any longer and did not provide gaskets and O-rings for newer refrigerants. We had to repalce the compressor with a current design.

    Ken

  3. #3
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    Re: Recommendation to convert R22 equipment to R407

    Hi Txiceman,

    Have same inquiry for system with 2 x 25HP Copelametic from R-22 to ozone friendly refrigerant.

    Am planning to propose R507 (glide=0) instead of R407

    How/Where can i check if it the parts/windings will be compatible with R507 & POE oil?

    Thank you in advance.

  4. #4
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    Re: Recommendation to convert R22 equipment to R407

    Quote Originally Posted by winfred.dela View Post
    Hi Txiceman,

    Have same inquiry for system with 2 x 25HP Copelametic from R-22 to ozone friendly refrigerant.

    Am planning to propose R507 (glide=0) instead of R407

    How/Where can i check if it the parts/windings will be compatible with R507 & POE oil?

    Thank you in advance.

    You will need to contact Copeland with the model and serial number of the compressor to know for sure.

  5. #5
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    Re: Recommendation to convert R22 equipment to R407

    Thank you for your answer i've gone through many articles for using R407 and R22 and it seems that the equipment features ar quite the same but the main issue is coming from the oil change. In morocco, you don't refregirant manufacturer and all the supplier are not good in the HAVC conversion as we are the owner to make this change. I really need some feedback and recommendation?
    Thanks in advance

  6. #6
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    Re: Recommendation to convert R22 equipment to R407

    Copeland has some machines that can be converted and some that can not.

    http://www.copeland-corp.com/

    http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrigerants/index.html

    http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrig...eflist2004.pdf

    http://www.suva.dupont.ca/pdf/R-407C...Suva%20407c%22

    I did not see any refrigeration machines that can run on 407C. Some on R507. The HVAC machines are not listed, so you will need to contact Copeland directly.

    Ken

  7. #7
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    Re: Recommendation to convert R22 equipment to R407

    Semi-hermetic reed or discuss type can be used for R407c med-high temp application. Some scroll Compressor can be used for high temp and AC application.

  8. #8
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    Re: Recommendation to convert R22 equipment to R407

    Replacing R22 with R407c is frought with difficulties, not least the requirement to remove the mineral oil to a residual percentage below 5% - this could require up to 5 oil changes with very expensive POE type oil.

    The Fridge industry in the UK learnt the hard way with R404a when R502 went in the 90's. The answer was a raft of 'Drop In' gases whose primary purpose avoided the need to change the base lubricant type.

    Also POE causes system sealing polymers to collapse, but this is a slow insidious affect that may not come to light for many months, when the system suddenly appears to have virtually no (and very expensive !) gas left.

    Also it was noted in the late 1990's after many chillers had simply been converted at manufacture that the evaporator of an R407c requires a larger surface area per unit heat exchange compared to R22. The effect of this is that liquid will likely return to the compressor, with disastrous consequences.

    Recip compressors, particularly those with Ring valves do not get on with R407c as the top end runs too dry, leading to accelerated valve wear and failure.

    So we would suggest you consider the Du Pont Isceon range in particular Isceon 59 (R417A) for DX systems and Isceon 29 (R422D) for water chillers. You must undertake a thorough leak check, renew the oil (same grade retained) and fit a new drier, you will also probably have to increase the TEVv opening, and must use the correct Gas comparison table for the chosen gas, but you will also likely save some energy as well.

    The above is just my opinion, but if I am asked to consider R407c to replace R22 I politely decline further involvement and then offer to explain why !

    No I do not work for Du Pont !

  9. #9
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    Re: Recommendation to convert R22 equipment to R407

    We've successfully made new a/c units using R407C. Interestingly, we were able to use R22 scroll compressors, with the manufacturers guarantee.

    The manufacturer even said there was no need to change the oil due to the unit being compact and not split into 2 over a long distance (affecting oil return).

    Does anyone know of any other possible long term effects of using R22 oil with R407C gas?

  10. #10
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    Re: Recommendation to convert R22 equipment to R407

    any term effect generaly lead to failure if the R407C is used with Mineral Oil which R22 requires

  11. #11
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    Re: Recommendation to convert R22 equipment to R407

    Check out INEOSFLUOR.com. They make R-407a also called KLEA 60. It's a great fit to replace R-22 in med and Low temp applications! Several grocery store chains are using it with great successs unlike R422D.

  12. #12
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    Re: Recommendation to convert R22 equipment to R407

    Skoerp do work for INEOS by any chance ?
    Your plugs on a couple of thread seem very blatant.

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