Suction Stop Valves

[frank]

I've just been quoted for 2 x replacement 120kw chillers.
The chillers will each have a single stepless screw compressor operating on R407C.

Suction service valves are quoted as an optional extra at £510 each - are they necessary? would you have them fitted?

Discharge valves are included in the price.

[Brian_UK]

Are you planning to fit suction valves outside the chiller itself?

Do you or will you need them later for oil changes etc. ?

[NoNickName]

Some marketing genius in one of the largest chiller company decided that suction valves were a "plus", and as such became an optional.
All competitors, included ourselves, had to put the suction valve as an optional as well to remain competitive on price.
For me, as engineer, that is not definitely a plus. That is a necessary component.

[Renato RR]

Put them I didnt and now regreted.I have whole ewaporator and suction line full off wapor and dont have suction valve to stop it.

Renato

[US Iceman]

Frank, I would add the suction valves. On almost any service technique I could think of they would be handy to have.

I must say, not putting the valves on as standard equipment is poor way for the manufacturer to save money.

Is the discharge valve the only valve they supply on the package?

[frank]

Is the discharge valve the only valve they supply on the package?

As far as I'm aware yes. I've added the "additional" suction valves to my order but I'm amazed and annoyed that they want to charge extra for what is an essential piece of kit.

Don't suppose it will be long before the compressor itself becomes an "optional extra"

Thanks all for the response. I tried to way up how I could achieve proper servicing etc without the valve but it just didn't seem right to have 2 chillers (which may turn into an order for 3 chillers) on site without them.

Managed to get a verbal price for the chillers last week when I was with the customer and I used this to calculate the order value with the client. Now I've got the written quotation these valves appear as an 'extra' so I'm out of pocket already. Good job we've already got mains electrical isolators on site otherwise that would have been another £1300 extra

[slingblade]

Cheapskates. the liquid line valve ( i presume they have one of these? ) enables pump over unless it passes, obviously. if however problems occur whereby pumpdown isn't an option then it's time to take all the gas out. i know you said screw comps so a head removal/bad valve plate does not really apply. but for example, what if the comp fails mechanically ? it's far faster to recover a compressor than a full system at 120 kw for stripdown/rebuild or whatever when there is no problem with the gas being re-used.or setting low pressure switches, where are they ported from? screwing in a valve whilst watching a gauge is easy and quick. by all means save yourself £510 a pop but will it be you on site in the future cursing the cheap and nasty design, not oriented towards service personell.
Every chiller i work on which has no valves gets at least a liquid line shut off if i have to take all the gas out to do something to it.

[Andy]

As far as I'm aware yes. I've added the "additional" suction valves to my order but I'm amazed and annoyed that they want to charge extra for what is an essential piece of kit.

Don't suppose it will be long before the compressor itself becomes an "optional extra"

Thanks all for the response. I tried to way up how I could achieve proper servicing etc without the valve but it just didn't seem right to have 2 chillers (which may turn into an order for 3 chillers) on site without them.

Managed to get a verbal price for the chillers last week when I was with the customer and I used this to calculate the order value with the client. Now I've got the written quotation these valves appear as an 'extra' so I'm out of pocket already. Good job we've already got mains electrical isolators on site otherwise that would have been another £1300 extra

Frank

thats way too much for the stop valves, on a chiller that size the valves should be less than £300. I know this as we have recently taken on an agency and I am pricing chillers daily.

I would say they know you have got the job and they are adding a little cream for themselves

My advise get another quote, even just to barter with your intended supplier.

Kind Regards Andy

[US Iceman]

frank,

What about the possibility of contacting the compressor manufacturer themselves to inquire about purchasing the stop valves separately?

You would have to install them yourself.

But... that would probably eliminate the warranty?

As Andy suggested, the valves are probably available for a lower cost, but then, the bloody fools want to charge you a premium for installing them.

You can't actually win with this can you????

[frank]

As you say, £510 for a valve is rather steep but when you consider the cost of buying one and retro fitting it, it just doesn't stack up. De-gassing, installing, re-gassing etc - it will cost more in the long run.

Seems like I've uncovered a little scam, as No NickName said, he's had to follow suit to be competative.

Slingblade

All your comments relate to my thinking while I've been trying to decide if I've got to have the valves or not.

To be honest, a good tech can't really look after any piece of kit properly if an essential part of it is missing and it makes your job difficult. There would come a time when you would be forced into taking shortcuts to get the job done and that would eventually end in tears for the customer - and embarrasment for yourself

[Brian_UK]

Frank, is there any justice in writing a letter to a trade paper and highlighting this "rip-off" and mentioning names to see if you get a public response by embarrassing them ?