Filling system up without vacumm

[MaDiNfO]

Wath are the causes ?

no cold at all ?
Stange noise on compresor and overheat ?


more ?

[Andy W]

If you are currently working on a refrigeration system............STOP immediateley and get the services of a properly trained refrigeration engineer, your last couple of posts are scaring me.

[MaDiNfO]

:P not running anything... just trying to now more... can you help me ? i have all the stuff needed only need to know working presures...

[mick2me]

:P not running anything... just trying to now more... can you help me ? i have all the stuff needed only need to know working presures...

Switch it off now!

Are you vacuuming down your system?

Is it not pre charged with gas?
(if it is, it will state "precharged with gas for up to XX metres of pipe")

[MaDiNfO]

it is not working i dont have the gas... only have 404 and not 407 only monday going to get some 407... i will make vaccum with an old compresor half hour then put the amount of gas sayed by the manufacture... 560grams... it is wath i am going to buy...

anyway wath should be the working presures?

[Toosh]

it is not working i dont have the gas... only have 404 and not 407 only monday going to get some 407... i will make vaccum with an old compresor half hour then put the amount of gas sayed by the manufacture... 560grams... it is wath i am going to buy...

anyway wath should be the working presures?

Well as far as i am concerned i think you should get an expert to do the work requiredi have been out of thr trade for 20 years and would be lost with the new refrigerants if i restarted in the business

Toosh

[donato]

depends on unit. can be somewhere in between -10 and 0 degrees celcius for 407c. just check suction line temp. must be few degrees above evaporating temp.

[Andy W]

And they wonder why there is a big hole in the ozone layer with people like this "messing" with systems, if you do not know, leave it alone.

[MaDiNfO]

And they wonder why there is a big hole in the ozone layer with people like this "messing" with systems, if you do not know, leave it alone.

NEVER DONE NOTHING TO DO THAT AND NEVER LEAVE ANY GAS TO THE AIR

[mick2me]

And they wonder why there is a big hole in the ozone layer with people like this "messing" with systems, if you do not know, leave it alone.

Andy, I thought this new stuff was supposed to be Ozone friendly?

Though I am not sure about the safety of my deoderant.

I also believe there are greater dangers to it!

[MaDiNfO]

they are... ozone friendly, but they still do some global warming...

by the way you have tons of old refrigerators on the dumps beeing destroyed without takeing the gas out... this old refregirrators as you know use R12 ....

[Andy]

:P not running anything... just trying to now more... can you help me ? i have all the stuff needed only need to know working presures...

Have you repaired the leak

If not when vaccuming you will pull in air and moisture which will destroy you system

If you don't pressure test after repair how do you know the repair is OK, it may vaccum, but then leak when you add gas (should be added as refrigerant liquid). You would then be adding your refrigerant to the Ozone layer

Kind Regards Andy

[MaDiNfO]

the system is new... doesnt have any leaks....
how can i make a presure test ? azot ?

[Andy]

the system is new... doesnt have any leaks....
how can i make a presure test ? azot ?

If the system is new the refrigerant comes in the outdoor unit

Oxygen Free Nitrogen is used for pressure testing. Testing would be to take the system to at least the design pressure (Allowable pressure which is stamped on the system).
You will need a regulator and gauges/gauge lines

Better have an engineer pressure test and vacumn the system with a vacumn pump which will produce a better vacumn than a compressor

Kind Regards Andy

[MaDiNfO]

the system is new but it comes with no gas at all.

and the system doesn't have any info about presures... only kind of gas and quantity...
wath should be the presures ?


i have 2 compresores to do the vacumm how long should i make it ? and wath shoulb be the value ?

[Andy]

the system is new but it comes with no gas at all.

and the system doesn't have any info about presures... only kind of gas and quantity...
wath should be the presures ?


i have 2 compresores to do the vacumm how long should i make it ? and wath shoulb be the value ?

The only reason I can think that it came without gas is it was brought in on an aeroplane or you lost the gas

I advise the use of a vacumn pump

1000 microns is what you should aim for (digital micron gauge needed) or as low as you gauges go
You may be able to boil off the moisture using a compressor, if it is very warm both at the indoor and the outdoor unit, I'll say it again MAY

You should ask your supplier for the operating pressure
the compressor will have a pressure max on it, but this maybe higher than the rest of the system can take

Kind Regards Andy

[MaDiNfO]

in the manual says that it haves no gas at all this is a japanese unit...

[John Wood]

Get it commissioned properly by a qualified engineer. It must me pressure tested to the correct pressures, tool little you might not find any residual leaks, too much you might blow yourself up. It HAS to be ecacuated properly! and you cannot charge it to prearranged pressures, there are other factors involved.

[Andy W]

by the way you have tons of old refrigerators on the dumps beeing destroyed without takeing the gas out... this old refregirrators as you know use R12 ....

In the UK all council dumps collect the refrigerators in a caged compound then have a contractor to come and remove all of the refrigerant and to issue the paper work etc, we are all now EPA registered for the transportation of waste gas from A to B and have safe handling qualifications ....rght?

[Andy W]

Andy, I thought this new stuff was supposed to be Ozone friendly?

Though I am not sure about the safety of my deoderant.

I also believe there are greater dangers to it!

My point was unqualified people messing with systems who do not know or do not care of the consequences of their actions. Remember R134a, 0% ozone depletion value, high global warming potential, R22, safe as houses, .05% depletion, high cancer risk, remember the cancer scares of 1976with R22, R134a causes cancer of the testes as found on rats, we are the guinea pigs for the effects of gas and idiots who do not know what they are doing are doing themselves no favours.

[MaDiNfO]

In the UK all council dumps collect the refrigerators in a caged compound then have a contractor to come and remove all of the refrigerant and to issue the paper work etc, we are all now EPA registered for the transportation of waste gas from A to B and have safe handling qualifications ....rght?

i am not in uk...

by the way found some R12 still on the market in china...

[MaDiNfO]

My point was unqualified people messing with systems who do not know or do not care of the consequences of their actions. Remember R134a, 0% ozone depletion value, high global warming potential, R22, safe as houses, .05% depletion, high cancer risk, remember the cancer scares of 1976with R22, R134a causes cancer of the testes as found on rats, we are the guinea pigs for the effects of gas and idiots who do not know what they are doing are doing themselves no favours.

in the uk i dont know and in dont care... here more than 90% of the people that do some AC work or other things with refrigeration don't have any dregree... course that uk guys think that rule the world... so it must be difrent...

[Andy]

in the uk i dont know and in dont care... here more than 90% of the people that do some AC work or other things with refrigeration don't have any dregree... course that uk guys think that rule the world... so it must be difrent...

What about the EU is your country not subject to the same laws as the UK

Good practice and enviromentally sound practice is common the world round.

Andy

[Andy W]

i am not in uk...

by the way found some R12 still on the market in china...

I give up with you, yes you can put 404a in a 407c system, no you do not need to dehydrate a system or waste money on a vac pump, it does not matter if you charge in vapour or liquid, don't bother to test the strength and integraty of the system, these are the answers that you want to hear now **** off!

[frank]

I give up with you, yes you can put 404a in a 407c system, no you do not need to dehydrate a system or waste money on a vac pump, it does not matter if you charge in vapour or liquid, don't bother to test the strength and integraty of the system, these are the answers that you want to hear now **** off!

Isn't it amazing how some people won't take no for an answer

[mick2me]

yes you can put 404a in a 407c system,

I dont know what yer nitpickin about

404a, 407c? its only 3b difference.

Tell you what treat me to a week in Portugal, and Ill come down and vac if for you, I am a fully qualified ...electrician.

[Brian_UK]

in the uk i dont know and in dont care... here more than 90% of the people that do some AC work or other things with refrigeration don't have any degree... course that uk guys think that rule the world... so it must be different...

MaDiNfO, you have crossed the line, your attitude to the health and safety of yourself and those around you is disgraceful.

No one on this site thinks that they are better than you, they just know that they are more qualified to perform a better and safer job of it than you appear to be able to.

You want to use the wrong refrigerant but think that that is OK. If your car or van runs on petrol go and put some diesel in the tank instead. If it runs on diesel fill it with petrol for a change. Then wonder why the local garage passes a comment such as "You fool".

You reside in Portugal and seem to think that you are outside of the law, well you're not. You have a responsibility to behave and work to certain safety standards; the same that we all within the EU have to.

It appears that this type of work ethic is beyond you however so we will just have to sit here in the distance hoping that you will see light and behave like a grown up person and not a spoilt child.

[The MG Pony]

FYI Portugal does have the same laws far as refrigeration is concerned as to the building of the system.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...splay.php?f=80 < Go here, there are many people who are learning of phase in portigule at this forum, talk with them on the laws, and you will see they have a good work ethic.

Wether you wish to do it on your own to learn or save money or to brag ; you must learn to do it right no matter the reason, one is a fool to do other wise.

[MaDiNfO]

Course they are... i've made a waterchiller to my computer about an year... i've read about the things and i've done my home work and i've manage to do an R134a compresore with the correct cap tube to get some water to 0º then a water pump gets that water to my PC CPU....

anyway AC units are new to me...


but if you think that the portuguese on those foruns make thinkgs by the book youre wrong... the time that i've pass on those phase change, xtreme cooling foruns and stuff... i've seen nasty things... like triple EVACS with R134a or wrost gas... nitrogen ? wtf is that ? -> for the most people... fill it up with gas evac then again evan then again... its preaty mutch that... and i think that would be the same everyhere...

i saw kids puping R12 systems to air just to get the compresor to do their phase change cooling system...

i've writen some concern posts about that no one listen... everybody sayin great post etc etc but nobody gives a damn....

[The MG Pony]

Actually we do, so far any one who would post about releasing R-12 would get there balls put in a vice, as for nitrogen that IS the proper way, FYI you at this very moment are breathing in over 79% nitrogen and humans have been for the last couple million years, the planet has been mainly nitrogen laden for trillions of years (If you haven't guessed by now it is the most common element on earth, and pretty much totally inert)

A/Cs are a chiller, only they chill air, same type of brains must be used, you obviously didn't learn what you where supposed to if you can't make the connection. So go to the site I listed and learn the basics! Until you fully understand how the cycle works and the principle behind the system how exactly do you intend on being competent to look at one let alone work on it ????

Learn the concept properly! & good for you that you managed to patch a unit together; that says nothing how ever, but your understanding says it very clearly, and that is you have yet much to learn be-for even thinking of trying to do any thing more.

You are sounding very foolish right now, and sounding like an idiot trying to defend your foolish sounding concepts, why did you bother to ask if you are not going to listen! thats the part that makes me pissed, you ask a group of people who took the time to learn this then totally ignore their answerers, so why the F--k did you bother asking in the first place!

You asked, our answer was, either
A: You take the time to learn to do it properly and learn what procedure you need to follow or
B: Hire a proper pro to do it