Fujitsu ASTA24LCC domestic A/C removing drain hose

[Tigercat]

Motor now installed in drain pan.....

Thank you Frank, and yes sir, I agree 100%, ideally a new motor would be the way to go.
However, for a DIY'er this is an alternative, total material cost = $14 for bearings. Silicone lubricants I had already, if you needed to buy = $20 and re-usable for other stuff.

If you have some appropriate tools, AND were not held up by how the drain pipe attaches, time to do, approx 3+ hrs, maybe. I have (had-haha) a decent "workshop", in my garage attached to the house , with benches, vices, drill press + other helpful goodies etc. But unbeknown to me a hoard of flipping termites found my work benches delicious and devoured them. Leaving them looking untouched on the outside but all hollowed out, so I could not use anything attached to these benches; haha went to tighten the vice and it just peeled up and dropped off. Therefore, I had to improvise and working out an improvised strategy consumed most of the time.

The scuffing to the stator (as per photo previous) should cause no issue in mtr operation.
With the blower attached and mtr secured in the d/pan bracket it spins great. In photo#01 the swing stepper mtr (in-between) green and red steppers (at bottom) needs to be removed completely with the white securing bracket to remove blower mtr shroud when dismantling. In photo #02 the fan to shaft locking screw is visible, this needs to be made secure with a locking compound, haha, your partners nail varnish will do just fine. Also can use her lippie to lube nylon gears and mascara for marking things....no, don't even try it, haha. Photo #03 shows blower end bearing fitted-it just slides into a locator bracket, easy.

All good so far. Next is to fit completed drain pan. In the interim time I'm going to straighten out some evaporator fins, I did not bend them, found them that way when covers came off + vacuum out any dust in the evaporator area + try and pack some foam into the hole in my wall that the installer left bare. Then will re-fit d/pan + re-assemble circuit brd, fit and check electrics. I'll leave the covers off when I test operation as my confidence of complete success is not there. And the main cover is a PITA to remove.

[frank]

I would suggest that you finish off the wiring and test run it without the drain pan in place. Could save a load of grief if you come across any issues and have to remove the motor again. Running it for 5 - 10 minutes without the drain pan will not cause any damage

[Tigercat]

That's a good idea Frank, thank you. I will do this...I'll support the d/pan (without connecting it up to evap) with some cord so I don't put wiring under stress and fire it up. Good call mate TA..

[Tigercat]

OK, so I tired to implement your good idea Frank. Unfortunately the mains power input terminates at an electrical terminal block on the d/pan. D/pan assembly also houses the e'control board, which also connects up to sensors (thermo etc) attached to evap. So to test the mtr without fully mounting the d/pan means extending pwr wiring and then sensors on evap cannot be attached to control brd due to d/pan now being at at distance that does not allow these sensors to be terminated on control brd. Therefore d/pan has to be fully mounted to the air con system....dang it!!

Tried last night with a helper to mount the d/pan. And again I'm caught with not being able to attach the d/hose to the pan spout, limited space to get in there and push it on. As d/pan has to be mounted first and then hose attached.

Again the (only?) option at this point is to remove the hose (connecting to pvc tubing) on the opposite side of the wall and feed enough of it through the hole to allow me to connect it to the pan. Then fit/mount the d/pan completely up to the evap as required, pushing the hose back through to the other side of the wall at the same time and re-connect to the pvc. Problem is, that installer has taped (securely) the d/hose to the refrigerant pipe in the wall cavity, difficult (if not impossible) to get to/remove this taped area, to allow free movement of d/hose.

Any ideas from others most welcome as this is becoming an absolute PITFA...

[Tigercat]

Arriba!! - righty'o....photos showing finding and cutting that f00k'n drain hose set-up, on the opposite side of the wall from where it exits to mate up with the drain pan. Previously the hose was too short to successfully get it onto the pan. Cutting where it mates up to the pvc drain to the outside now gives some extra length inside to (hopefully) attach to the pan, pic#04.

Pvc was cut with plumbing pipe cutter(pic#03) that I had at home, used previously to do some plumbing mods. I'm sure, no probs using a small saw also. When d/pan fitted, hose will be fed back through the wall and re-joined, with what/how --- will work it out when I get there.

[Tigercat]

OK, have been procrastinating a bit. So, have just now re-fitted the d/pan onto the evaporator. I had a helper, which I felt was necessary, made it reasonably easy-ish to do. D/pan hose easy to fit with that extra length, pushes on snuggly. Had to wiggle and juggle some-what to get the pan in place. Then as it slides up towards the evap had to bend the plastic tabs at the bottom of the pan up and over the two brackets that the pan rests on. these brackets are part of the wall bracket that secures all onto the wall.

The d/pan hose needed to be gently pulled back through the wall as the d/pan was positioned under the evap and then pushed up to engage the two brackets. I found using some silicone spray was of great assistance to allow things to slide and move.

At either end of the d/pan there are two screws that now need to fitted to secure the pan to the evaporator. At this point the pan is just sitting there, held by the two bracket locators...all good.

I'll be back once I fit the screws, pan to evap. Also need to fit the controller board and plug in motor and sensors +hook up mains pwr. These connector plugs are sized such that they will only fit the appropriate receiving receptacle on the cct brd, so no issues at getting it wrong.

[Tigercat]

Righty'o then, photos #01-->#04; sequentially shows: cavity to slide pcb into, pcb mounted, pcb with transducers/sensors connected to pcb receptacles + (ac) mains input terminal block, with x2 mains earth(s) terminated, terminal block fitted + (ac) mains input conductors terminated. Mains was pulled through the rear acceptance hole via cord. Difficult if you try to feed through from the rear.

As I can do stupid as good as anyone else, I checked (m/meter) that mains has no short to earth, ie: terminal block with mains fitted, check to air con earth. Check ac earth from air con earth(s) to established mains earth, in my locality ac earth resistance is <=0.5 ohms.

Covers will be left off, in case I have made a stuff up, I'll power it up tomorrow. As it is nearly 12pm, and if issues happen, I would sooner it be in daylight.

[Brian_UK]

You're getting there...

[Tigercat]

Hey thanks Brain_UK.....It's all powered up. I've turned on the air con and all is great. Nice and quiet, blower motor is performing well, on, all speeds. Hahahaha, however the x2 vertical louvers are not operational, the lower single large vert flap assembly works no probs. I have used a screw driver to place on this vertical louver stepper mtr and the other end of the s/driver to my ear. I can hear this s/mtr operating each time a command is generated via the remote. So, it appears that the vertical louver mtr is working but not engaging mechanically...muffed it, dang it!

Yeah, had a thought I may have an issue in this area when I disassembled the d/pan when cleaning it. Maybe I have not set-up the louver gearing/stepper mtr engagement correctly. Looks like I can get to this area without removing the pan. Haha, fix one and muff another, so back in I go. Will look into it this evening...at least the mtr and blower assembly do not have issues.

[Brian_UK]

You know what they say, "90% of the job is complete, the other 90% is snagging".

Check the louvre linkages to make sure that you're not 180deg out and the links can be simple slot and tang joints where the tang has snapped off.

At least you can look at the problem in the cool now.

[Tigercat]

Haha, a well deserved saying Brian. And thank you for your info sir, much appreciated. I will have a lookie later this eve. I need to bash out some laps at my aquatic centre first, when I get home I will give it a go with your info in mind. It's now winter down here mate, so I'm seeking some warmth...but yes, it heats and cools great..but something I have/or have not done is causing this issue, that's inexperience for you...learning on the run. Will update my progress....

[Tigercat]

Back to it...easy to remove the vertical louvre/louver stepper mtr. One screw and the mtr pulls out and has a gear on the output shaft, this needs to come out also, as it is a key-way fit.

Mtr is driving, hold in fingers, can feel step of the rotor. However, reduction gearbox attached to mtr has an issue (crack in gear, stripped teeth etc?). And for some time now the louvres have had an issue, top and bottom sticking together....so stressed for some time. Why it has let go now? Louvres were positioned correctly (marked them) and when I started it up today there was no movement at all from louvres....so seemed to be knackered prior to re-fit? Maybe when I cleaned pan, handling applied some force to louvre blades back into the already stressed gear...

A new one no probs ($25+14day wait) and might be the best way.....Buuuut (fixed one-why not another), there are x4 tabs that hold the g/box cover and drive bushing on. I tried to bend these tabs up, thick tabs, starts to distort motor casing when attempted. I'll reduce the thickness (file) of these tabs to allow bending up or remove the tabs completely and solder cover back on, this metal should accept solder.

Cracked nylon gears can be fixed (reasonably easy) and are normally reliable, when done correct. Hmmm, stripped teeth, nah; anyway once inside we'll see what's up and take it from there. If it's doable, I'll give it a crack - don't have to wait the 14 days post, no go --->order a newie...

[frank]

Without the louvres in place, can you see the motor spindle turn?

[Tigercat]

If you are referring to the louvre mtr Frank, no the drive spindle does not turn but I can feel the stepper mtr cogging/stepping...so mtr=ok, gearbox=problem, I'm thinking output shaft is has come loose from final drive gear, can fix + be reliable. If asking about blower mtr, yeah working a treat, no probs.

[al]

Hell of a thread Tiger, keep going!

[frank]

Yes, sorry it was not clear

I was talking about the louver motor

[Tigercat]

No worries Frank, I hope I answered you enquiry... Photos show g/box with top cover off. I filed away the tabs holding it to the g/box housing. Trying to bend up the x4 cover holding tabs distorts the g/box housing, so easier to file off these tabs. We can glue or solder this cover back on.

As per photos, all the gears look in good condition, no cracks or munched teeth. The final drive gear with drive shaft is shown. And as I posted previously, my thoughts were that this drive shaft has become loose within the gear (and that seems to be the case), ie: the drive shaft, under load, rotates independent of the gear it should be affixed to...d/shaft should be solidly attached to this final drive gear. But grasping this gear firmly and applying a turning force to the d/shaft causes the d/shaft to turn and the gear remains stationary...so that is our problem.

The fix = clean big time (detergent/alcohol etc) to remove grease etc. Push the d/shaft out of the gear, abrade the area that will be bonding to the location hole in the gear and use some epoxy (2 part) glue. Will also apply glue to the external parts of the d/shaft that contact the surface of the gear. Let glue cure well, then reassemble. To test = installing into air con, leave loose so I can grasp the output d/shaft (pliers) and run louvre cycle and (nearly) stall the stepper mtr a few times. If it can handle that, should be good to go... Photos will be in this post and a following one

[Tigercat]

OK, the last photo...shows tools that were used...pretty easy to do. Also final drive gear with drive shaft is shown sitting on the g/box cover. I was hoping to show the internals of the stepper mtr because they are an interesting design, alas it's sealed up. I have used stepper mtr's in many circuit designs, haha, but have never split apart small ones such as this. However, I'm confident the repair will be successful... Oh, and thank you, al, for your interest.

[Tigercat]

All right then --- please disregard what I noted in POST #67, I GOT IT WRONG. Had a bit more of a think last night concerning the final drive gear and associated drive shaft.

The reason why I assumed the d/shaft had come loose within the drive gear, is that, I can grip this gear and applying some turning force (via pliers) to the shaft it turns independent of the final drive gear.

This final d/gear and d/shaft are meant to be this way, so no problem (I failed to examine other/this possibilities) with this system. REASON BEING, this is a clutch. As the louvres move up and down, they need to stop at their maximum deflection, going down and going up. The way this is sensed, is, by the louvers coming to the end of their travel and applying load to the mtr when they do so, thus, current draw by the stepper mtr increases and the protection cct monitors this and sees current increase above the normal running current. Due to this, supply to the mtr is terminated and stops the louvre travel at its end stops (down and up max travel).

And the d/shaft is located in the final gear drive with a clutch mechanism. When the end stop is reached this clutch engages applying extra loading but not completely stalling the d/shaft, therefore current increase is sensed and mtr power terminated. The clutch arrangement stops damage to the g/box and mtr by using a "soft stop" arrangement. That's why I could apply force to the d/shaft and turn it independent of the d/gear.

Ok so I re-inspected the gears under some high magnification and found that the second d/gear had a few teeth with some distortion on the tooth faces and the gear valleys had closed up a wee bit.

Solution is to try and "re-profile" these areas. Use a sharp bladed cutter, such as in photo (scalpel is best but can't find mine). Scrap/shave away very small bits of nylon that look out of place on the gear face and then open up the valleys buy cutting/scraping further down into the V. Photos show how to go about it. This technique can be applied to any nylon/plastic gear teeth. It is mainly the distortion/bunching up of nylon at the bottom of the V that causes gear binding, gear face correction should occur as the teeth interface with another gear. CLEAN out between the teeth with a tooth brush/running water.

Louvre mtr now works great. I have reassembled and applied cable ties to keep g/box cover in place. Before reassembling, silicone paste (as silicone is nylon/plastic safe) was used to lube all gears and metal d/shaft + bushing. I opted to use a Tarzans grip (shock proof) super glue to secure the cover at the points I filed off + the area where the bracket screw holes are. This should be ok + can potentially remove if need be, will solder if this is insufficient. This glue has full cure @ 24hrs, but should be ok later on this eve, so, will refit and test later tonight....

[Brian_UK]

Okay, so nearly finished.

What is your next project? We can't have you sitting around idly drinking beer and watching TV now can we?

[Tigercat]

Yes indeed Brian, nearly finished, just need to fit the covers.
I have had the AC running at 25 deg C with the "swing" (vertical louvres) engaged continuously since Friday evening. Unit is running beautifully, blower mtr, responsive and quiet and the little vert louvre mtr that I did some surgery on is operating like a charm, no noise and responding to its end stops/changing direction as it should do. Hahaha, so I'm pretty chuffed as well....as it has just started to get a bit chilly down this way.

Haha, Brian, I try not to have too much happening but I just love machines, whether they be electric, electronic, mechanical, pneumatic or anything else. I give everything a go, gets your brain working, saves $'s and alleviates wastage, machines like to live on (so they tell me).

I'm pretty good at the electronics/electrical area (E/Eng), other areas I learn about by putting thinking hat on and from others, in person, or from areas, such as your fine forum board and from reading about other knowledgeable peoples information/experience. So I thank you: Brian, Rob White, Frank, Tayters and al for personally engaging with me and allowing me to post this repair on your forum board. And thank you to the other members for showing an interest for what I've been up to.

Hahaha, it all started with that flipp'n drain hose.... I rarely join forum boards and have NEVER documented my progress for others. This board has allowed me to do so, even though that was not the plan. However, I always take photos when doing a project (keeps conceptual ambiguity in check) and as I was doing this for my AC and submitting this to your board for response to my questions, I thought I'd keep it going. And, I think it fair and just to add commentary to complement the process and photos to keep others informed as to what is taking place, instead of leaving them guessing...what's this geeza up to/what took place there etc.

So, Brian, I really do like to sit around and do bugger all mate, if I can - but that fleshy processor/control board in my head keeps tempting me to get in there and make/fix things.

Now, I'm onto repairing a verge "chuck-out" 55" Samsung LED flat screen tv. It has ghost/double/lines on screen, image issues. Pretty easy fix. Photo #3 is the T-con (timing and control) brd and the x2 (white/black) clamp connectors at the bottom of the brd supply, via x2 ribbon cable, image signalling to the screen. Clean the "finger" contacts on these connectors with alcohol (cotton swab)+ clean ribbon cable interface contacts. Wait until alcohol evaporates, re-insert r/cables into connectors push down clamps to secure x2 ribbon cable, all should be good.

This is a common issue on flat screens, oxide layer (over time) forms on contacts, increases resistance across this contact area. Then we have a volt drop, Mr Ohm steps up, V=IR, across these connectors, subsequently supplying the screen with a signal it cannot process correctly = bad tv night.

I have a lot of experience in circuit design/analysis/testing + repairing to component level (including surface mount) of many varied e'systems. And I would like to stay around on your forum board, Brian and Frank. I (hopefully?) may be able to assist other members with electronic issues. Once you isolate the offender, it's pretty straight forward (even for novices/limited ability in e'tronics) to get it sorted. Failing Electrolytic capacitors (DC ccts) are the nemesis of all DC systems. These caps are about the only components in the electronics environment that have an actual life span (thousands of hours, cost and manufacturer dictate the good ones), all the rest pretty much indefinite (when kept within parameters). Bad caps, will influence all other componentry operation, leading to false diagnosis if you are not aware....

All righty then, I still need to fit the covers to my air con (have fitted filters for its trial run) and re-join drain hose I cut to give d/hose some length....so will be back with some snaps, when done.

[Brian_UK]

So glad to hear/read that your AC is behaving as it should do, so well done; service/repair proved, justified and resolved.

Projects like yours are always welcomed as we 1st worlders tend to forget that there are many others who do not have the benefit of spare part suppliers/ spare cash or technicians on hand to keep their equipment running. Many times we have had requests from areas such as the Pacific Rim and Middle/Far East asking about PCB component part repairs which we would not consider a worthwhile repair especially has we aren't privy to the electrical schematics of the OEMs. However there are many talented people out there who can/do and will perform these repairs at component level because that it what they have to do.

I have been amazed at some techs in places like Iraq who kept asking questions about AC faults while being shifted from town to town to get away from the war front. One day a picture of a blown motor capacitor and the next day a video of bombs going off in the next street. Nowhere near my kind of working day at all.

Your exercise demonstrates that these things are possible and therefore encourage others to press on, so thank you.

Sadly in this day and age of instant gratification via social media a lot of repairs are performed through the use of a smartphone and a certain amount of abuse, such is life.

[frank]

And a great big WELL DONE from me. There is nothing more rewarding when, having carried out a sometimes, 'first time' repair, you re-apply the power and - bingo, it works, sort of moment.

I'm sure that all of us in one way or another, what ever our trade or speciality, have had that wry smile while standing back and admiring our handywork, that we didn't think ourselves capable of.

I can confess to having researched Youtube for knowledge on some non-fridge related repairs that I have then carried out with success and without having to spend a fortune on by engaging a specialist. (last time was re-setting the warning lights on the van dashboard due to it failing the MOT because the Service and diesel exhaust valve lights were showing)

I must admit though that I'm no expert in electronic pcb repairs. I have a basic understanding and have built simple circuits from scratch, changed dry capacitors (daughters piano power pcb) and replaced soldered relays etc. but more involved repairs are way beyond my remit. Finding replacement parts and having the proper test kit are other reasons why I just change boards

Anyway, I'm pleased that you have had success and that your A/C is now back up and working. Time for a tinnie now I expect.

[al]

Could we benefit from a right to repair law in all our countries, those shows on tv showing repairs / restoration be it of cars or family heirlooms are getting very popular! Well done again mate!

[Tigercat]

Hey, thanks chaps, I appreciate your response.

Brian, the irony sir, what you wrote, concerning (let's say) 3rd world countries and their access to the spares/technology we are privy to. This was exactly on my mind when typing out my post (#71), wanted to mention it but thought I'd waffled too much. Spot-on mate, there are dudes in these countries/localities that repair just about everything, some under horrendous circumstances, as you mentioned. They really have no option (+ curious minds need to know), and I'm absolutely astounded at what they achieve, with the little they have...

Haha, I read you loud and clear Frank. Yeah, mate youtube has some excellent content from very helpful, smart people...they have helped me many times as well, haha, but not on this one, dang it.

Yes, Frank, good idea to replace your p/supply caps, good onya...you could apply that skill to other e'repairs, no probs. I use a good British Company (est~1920?), so you will have them there , called Radio Spares. They have good quality/range/products/spares (price is higher than local shops), excellent online catalogue. And even here, they deliver (free) the next day, as normally it costs + 7-10 days wait time. The local e'shop is also a great place but may be limited. Keep in mind, any mass produced brds use mass produced components...local e'shop first.

[Tigercat]

OK, all done. Thank you to all, I was committed to complete, however, my motivation was maxed, due to the interest, comments, manuals and advice that you fellas provided...much appreciated.

A/C, is set at 23deg/c (will be 8d/c ovr/night) , vertical louvres on continuous....all good. Covers come up well with a good clean, as well.

As per photos, joined the drain hose pvc (cut to extnd d/hose) with some very old (all I had) "clear" tubing (works well), electronics bay without cover, e/bay cover installed + bare complete unit, completed with cover + installed new purifying, deodorising filters.

In photo #3, this cct brd contains the power supply (Lo dc - cntrl cct +Hi dc for blower) and control (processor, transducer sense, stepper mtr drive, system protection ..blah, blah....). The blower mtr has its own control brd inside the mtr housing but takes instructions from the main processor, and also provides feedback from the motor: temperature, position, rotational speed etc.

So, it's goodnight from me and goodnight from him...Tiger(Ronnie)cat

[Brian_UK]

A gentle ripple of applause was heard from around the forum.

If anyone wants to award him some rep points it wouldn't be amiss.

Well done fella, here's to a warm winter for you.

[al]

Done, what a thread)