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Thread: York chiller

  1. #1
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    York chiller



    Good day great Engineers.
    Please can somebody help, it is urgent,
    I have a York chiller that runs on SUCTION LIMITING and after few minutes the compressors drop.
    The chiller has 2 circuits and both circuits run with Suction Limiting. I observed the pipes after the expansion valves freezes. I have checked the gas level. WHAT COULD BE THE CAUSE? Thanks



  2. #2
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    Re: York chiller

    Low water flow might be an issue, i would also recheck that the correct charge is in the system, driers are clean etc
    Mostly found in the southern part of this green and pleasant land.

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    Re: York chiller

    I agree with al, it could be poor water flow or it could be the chiller baffle plate gaskets are damaged. If the chiller baffle plate gaskets are damage , the liquid refrigerant can bypass the gas passes in the chiller and the expanded refrigerant from the expansion valve doesn’t evaporate, this causes frosting of the expansion tubes after the expansion valve and also a low suction gauge pressure. If this is the case it it possible that the chiller could freeze and damage the tubes
    So check the water flow rate , check the suction super heat and the suction pressure this will give us more ideas as to what the problem may be

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    Re: York chiller

    Hi Okendo.
    A simple question.
    What is the water on and the water off temperatures.
    My first question.
    Second would be what are the Water circuit strainers like.
    If they are blocked!
    Then the water flow is reduced to the point where there is a greatly reduced load and the chiller overshoots or suction limits.
    As the guys have said!
    Their both Old School.
    Other issues may apply as well.
    But basics first.
    You have not told us what chiller it is.

    Is it an old style with York j or P comps!

    It would be interesting to know.
    Grizzly
    Despite the High Cost of Living it still remains Popular!

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    Re: York chiller

    I need more info on the chiller fella
    Model
    Suction limiting could be caused by oil logged within the evaporator if the chiller has run unloaded for long periods
    A low flow rate can cause suction limiting but i dont believe that is the case
    Give me the model compressor type
    And running pressures and water temps
    And i will help you further

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    Re: York chiller

    Thanks you for your response!
    The setpoint was set at 6 and the Range was 0.9
    When the compressors start, the. Leaving water temperature drops so rapidly below setpoint and the compressors drop.
    The LWT DROPS BELOW THE SETPOINT TO ABOUT 3-4DEGREES WHILE THE EWT ONLY DROPS BY 2DEGREES FROM 11 TO 9 DEGREES
    While running the Suction pressure was about 7.8 bar while the Discharge pressure was about 27bar.
    The compressors are the Scroll type
    Model: YLAA0435SE50.
    Actually, while the chiller is running, the Suction pressure from the manifold gauge is about 95psi. But could not find any gas leakage.

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    Re: York chiller

    Sounds like it's water related, get the flow checked.
    Mostly found in the southern part of this green and pleasant land.

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    Re: York chiller

    Quote Originally Posted by al View Post
    Sounds like it's water related, get the flow checked.
    As usual, I agree totally with Al.

    Grizzly
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    Re: York chiller

    I love it when people bang on about flow rates and dont give the design min/max flow rate to help you
    The design flow rate for the york ylaa0435 se
    Is min 7.6 l/s max 39.4 l/s.
    You should not get suction limiting with a back pressure of 7.8 bar to help you further post a proper running log

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    Re: York chiller

    I don't know what your experience is so I will forgive your rudeness.
    I am assuming someones had a bad day?

    But I work on plenty of Chillers that you cannot read or work out the flow rates correctly.
    Because there has not even been any Binder points fitted.
    Many I commission don't start life with good flows.
    Banging on!
    Trying to second guess an issue on the forum requires guessing sometimes.
    Because as you say Without a log or further details little can be confirmed.

    With a delta T of 6 to 8c I definitely would be looking at the flows through the evaporator.
    We all try and help each other on here and your attitude does not help anyone!

    You Hopefully in the future will try and guess the issue someone has.
    And Yes others will jump in with their opinions.

    Hopefully we all get to the correct result in the end.
    Grizzly
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    Re: York chiller

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve186 View Post
    I love it when people bang on about flow rates and dont give the design min/max flow rate to help you
    The design flow rate for the york ylaa0435 se
    Is min 7.6 l/s max 39.4 l/s.
    You should not get suction limiting with a back pressure of 7.8 bar to help you further post a proper running log
    So Steve can you add how do we check flow rate in in that range.
    Special tools & further information about pump, amps, pressures, flow meter, big bucket & stopwatch.

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    Re: York chiller

    Flow rates are a bench Mark.
    Which I am sure Steve knows Well Ranger!



    You can calculate the flow rates using the Kpa diff across the heat exchanger and the sliding scales in a York manual.
    Or any other Manufacturer has similar.
    Which has correction factors for Glycol strength ectra. So it can be done quite easily.

    But that aside with such a huge diff Almost immediately between the water on and off.
    I don't need to measure anything Yet!
    York chillers don't operate on delta T temps that large.
    It's likely to be stopping itself from sucking it's nuts off because the heat exchange is not good enough.
    You get the same with Oil logging.
    But Hey what would "we" know!
    Or am I just Banging On?
    Grizzly
    Last edited by Grizzly; 24-04-2018 at 07:16 AM.
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    Re: York chiller

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly View Post
    Flow rates are a bench Mark.
    Which I am sure Steve knows Well Ranger!



    You can calculate the flow rates using the Kpa diff across the heat exchanger and the sliding scales in a York manual.
    Or any other Manufacturer has similar.
    Which has correction factors for Glycol strength ectra. So it can be done quite easily.

    But that aside with such a huge diff Almost immediately between the water on and off.
    I don't need to measure anything Yet!
    York chillers don't operate on delta T temps that large.
    It's likely to be stopping itself from sucking it's nuts off because the heat exchange is not good enough.
    You get the same with Oil logging.
    But Hey what would "we" know!
    Or am I just Banging On?
    Grizzly
    Grizzly, value your knowledge & experience as well as everyone else’s
    sometimes we shoot from the hip because we assume some people something.
    It can get boring sometimes asking same questions like what is the superheat, refrigerant type etc etc.
    Hard to know who knows what as can’t answer basics.
    If someone feels like it maybe set down checks for various situations like chiller, probably been done before?
    Truoble is so many situations.

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    Re: York chiller

    Quote Originally Posted by RANGER1 View Post
    Grizzly, value your knowledge & experience as well as everyone else’s
    sometimes we shoot from the hip because we assume some people something.
    It can get boring sometimes asking same questions like what is the superheat, refrigerant type etc etc.
    Hard to know who knows what as can’t answer basics.
    If someone feels like it maybe set down checks for various situations like chiller, probably been done before?
    Truoble is so many situations.
    Your input is always valued by me my friend.
    The other Steve seems to have gotten annoyed by my / our input.
    As we both know being the first to quess what the issue may be can lead us to go down the wrong path.
    I will be interested as to what Okendo finds?

    Just to add I base my answer on what I have experianced.
    I have attended a YORK Chiller that was Suction limiting where previous Colleagues had Topped up The "short of Gas system".
    Only to remove 20 Kilos of refrigerant.
    Hence my initial comment and i know Al. Has a vast experiance of York chillers having historically worked for them.
    I understand What Steve is saying, that if you are saying check flow then "You" should qualify the flow needed.
    Fair enough, but in this case if it is a blockage / restriction.
    The effect of clearing it would be immediate with or without the flow reafings.
    Grizzly
    Last edited by Grizzly; 16-05-2018 at 08:53 PM. Reason: it was Kilos not Grams.
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    Re: York chiller

    Sorry Fellas been flat out working
    i was not being rude i simply gave my opinion as for experience i have the knowledge and ability and well respected within the industry i work on very large tonnage centrifugal chillers to absorption.look at the pressures 7.8 barg suction and 27 bar discharge
    i have no details but at these operating pressures i would say the refrigerant is R410A
    would you agree.
    when i investigate issues i remove all the variables as we have not got a log sheet or any operational data to work with lets remove the variables if there is no flow or limited flow the chiller should not start due to the flow switch preventing start
    using a Manometer check the flow rate and the delta p across the evaporator
    if you have flow then the suction limiting warning is not caused by flow issues
    and then you investigate further
    as i said when you get provided very little information its hard to help there is many other causes for suction limiting as i mentioned oil logging within the evaporator common on carrier 30RB
    liquid flooding back. expansion valve stuck fully open
    but i do agree with you both that its possible that its flow related
    but if that is the case then this person should not be working on chillers
    again i was not being rude i just need information to help like a log sheet
    with a good log sheet you can then help

  16. #16
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    Re: York chiller

    The type of heat exchanger hasn't been mentioned......shell and tube can have poor heat transfer over time if the water treatment has not been good. PHE can end up with restricted flow due to the same
    I'm back on the Pale

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    Re: York chiller

    If Okendo could advise what is the latest.
    It would be good!

    Grizzly
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  18. #18
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    Re: York chiller

    Ranger1
    You can try and use a big bucket and stopwatch
    would be alot easier to use a manometer to measure L/S
    i also find using a simple binder gauge to measure the delta p across the evaporator
    which would determine flow once i carried out these simple checks i could rule out flow issues
    and the L/S range i posted was based on the chiller spec in order for people to assist we require information

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