Yet Another R-22 Replacement

[glabah]

ICOR is saying that they have developed yet another replacement for R-22, which they are calling "NU-22B":
http://www.icorinternational.com/nu22B-opening.html

Has anyone actually tried using this yet?

We have an assortment of options for refrigerants in the air conditioning systems we design, but so far none are really particularly good options:

• Continue to use R-22 and wait and see what else gets developed over the next few years, and make a panic switch in 2009.

• R-410A: Approved for use in our situation, but the relatively low temperature of the critical point makes design of the condenser a significant problem. Critical point of R-410A is approx. 166 deg. F, and we can see condenser ambient air at 140 deg. F in some systems.

• R-407C: High temperature glide, uses POE oil, eats compressor amperage. If we could find something else, it would be helpful.

• R-134a: Low pressure system means condenser and evaporator coils would be physically quite large.

• R-417A: Some capacity decrease, but exactly how much is difficult to say, because standard R-22 replacement tests I have seen do not adjust the expansion valve (which in an actual system would be rather stupid not to do - and when designing a new system can be appropriately sized).

• R-422B: Looks OK in the propaganda stuff above, but was only introduced to the market in January 2006. Appears to only be available from ICOR.

In any event, the rant aside, it would be interesting to get some other perspectives on this one.

[Dan]

Isceon 79?

http://refrigerants.dupont.com/Suva/.../isceon79.html

Me, I would be looking for the least expensive.

[glabah]

Isceon 79?

http://refrigerants.dupont.com/Suva/.../isceon79.html

Isceon is supposed to be for low temperature applications, such as refrigeration. We are using this for air conditioning.

Though, you are right, DuPont does have a new one too called Isceon MO29
http://refrigerants.dupont.com/Suva/.../isceon29.html
looks very similar in concept to the R-422B from ICOR.

[Chris Burton]

There is a real problem with the direction the industry is going with the new gases. Enviromental legislation is giving the chemical industry the oppurtunity to sell their dodgy new gases at inflated prices. We are currently quietly advising to stick with R22 until 2009 while a suitable (if any emerge) replacement is developed.

[Andy]

Isceon is supposed to be for low temperature applications, such as refrigeration. We are using this for air conditioning.

Though, you are right, DuPont does have a new one too called Isceon MO29
http://refrigerants.dupont.com/Suva/.../isceon29.html
looks very similar in concept to the R-422B from ICOR.

Has Tescos in the uk not decided to use it in all their aircon to replace R22

Is it not R417 under a trade name

Kind Regards Andy

[glabah]

Is it not R417 under a trade name

R-417 has several trade names. Here in the USA both DuPont and ICOR make it, and there is a different brand name for both. They did the same thing with R-22.

[romain.rougieux]

Arkema FX 100 ?
http://www.arkema.com/pdf/EN/product...e_FX100_VE.pdf

[glabah]

Arkema FX 100 ?
http://www.arkema.com/pdf/EN/product...e_FX100_VE.pdf

Unfortunately, they don't seem to have that one listed on their USA division web site:
http://www.arkema-inc.com/index.cfm?pag=26

[will smith]

What about 407-C?

[The MG Pony]

R-290

The message you have enterd is too short, please lengthen your post to more then 10 characters.

[glabah]

What about 407-C?

R-407C is certainly around from a number of vendors. However, compared to R-22 it is a bit more power hungry on the compressor. If we could find something closer to actual R-22 performance, the system we are designing could use a smaller compressor.

Also, in the USA it is necessary to use POE oils with R-407C. In a few countries, my understanding is that there are non-hydroscopic lubricants available (PAO oil isn't it?) but not here yet. Certain people don't like working with the POE oils.

[A/C student]

The company I work for currently uses a/c systems that majorly use R410a and R22 refrigerent. This change does bring about some issues seeing as we would then have to carry more gas types other than what we are currently using.

Most of our new installs use R410 or R22 we also carry R407c. Which is rarely used at this point in time.

The vehicle im currently driving is already filled to capacity, with the usual tools fridge bottles acetylene and replacement pumps. The added weight of different gas will just decrease the speed I can drive on british highways and increase the fuel consumption.

I dont fancy driving around the van with that extra weight. Would you?

[Brian_UK]

The company I work for currently uses a/c systems that majorly use R410a and R22 refrigerent. This change does bring about some issues seeing as we would then have to carry more gas types other than what we are currently using.

Most of our new installs use R410 or R22 we also carry R407c. Which is rarely used at this point in time.

The vehicle im currently driving is already filled to capacity, with the usual tools fridge bottles acetylene and replacement pumps. The added weight of different gas will just decrease the speed I can drive on british highways and increase the fuel consumption.

I dont fancy driving around the van with that extra weight. Would you?

Why are you installing R22 kit ?

[The MG Pony]

R-290 is nearly identical in all facets to R-22 with slight discharge pressure difference and temp, ie better while significantly needing less of it for a given unit.! single component so it can be vapour or liquid charged!

[A/C student]

Why are you installing R22 kit ?

I believe its mainly the close control kit, or is that 407 systems. hmmmm I'm unsure whether we continue installing R22 kit at this time. But we do carry it as a rule, for use in older systems.

No point in going to low on gas call out without the right gas..right? It's like trying to braize inch 8 using map gas instead of acetalene lol

[mxstar]

In Europe Dupont market the following as R22 replacements. All are from what they call their ISCEON 9 series refrigerants. They are all HFC's:

ISCEON MO29: Replaces R22 in direct expansion water chillers. ASHRAE No. R422D;

ISCEON MO59: Replaces R22 in stationary air con and medium temperature refrigeration systems. ASHRAE No. R-417A;

ISCEON MO79: Replaces R22 in medium and low temperature refrigeration systems. ASHRAE No. R-422A.

Other zero ozone depleting substances are available: from Refrigerant Solutions Limited there is also RS44 (ASHRAE No. R424A) for medium temperature and high temperature systems. RS45 is for medium and low temperature systems.

All these products are strictly not suitable for all applications. I would suggest you seek advise from BOC Refrigerants for example.

[404cab]

I have seen these adds about R 417 and R 422, but they are always talking about a use for commercial refrigeration...what about the big water chillers, we have 45 units Stal and York working on R22 as AC Chillers, with 1 200 to 1 800 Kg of R 22 inside, has any test been done for this size units???? ( some DX and some flooded evap )

[glabah]

R-290 is nearly identical in all facets to R-22 with slight discharge pressure difference and temp, ie better while significantly needing less of it for a given unit.! single component so it can be vapour or liquid charged!

It is also illegal for us to use R-290 as a refrigerant in our type of system. We can, however, use it as fuel for stoves and furnaces just fine.

[old gas bottle]

as MX pointed out,there are differant coctails for differant applications, if unsure about choice,best ask the tech rep dept,often contactable through the wholesaler,bit of a laugh realy, once upon a time there was R12,R22,R502 as common refrigerants, now donkeys years later there are dozens and most of them are no better if not worse in one way or another [exepting R134A,R404A,R410A and a few others]i can smell profitiering,

[Fatboymart]

Why are you installing R22 kit ?

He probably works for the same idiots that we do

[multisync]

Boss emailed A-gas asking which air conditioning manufacturers' actually recommend R59 ?

Guess what ...no answer