York 2-pass Chiller Surging

[furikazashi]

I have loads of data which I will be uploading after I write this post. Starting about 3 weeks ago my chiller has been surging to the point of shutdown for safety. I have the option of running another chiller side by side with it but it seems to make the problem worst sometimes and go away others. I cannot tell what is causing these issues but AFAIK but i've had a YORK technician out several times, his best guess is that it happens when its under a higher load. The pump strainers are clean there is good flow throughout and there is no air in the system to my knowledge. I will attach a 7 day running log of good statistics to pair with 2 other surge kickout logs of what the system looked like when it shutdown. Any help would be appreciated.
On a side note: one thing I do notice is the approach temperature when the chiller gets shutdown due to surges is that the Approach temperature is in the negatives, which i would believe improbable since at a full load it should run about 3°F and with nothing should be 0°F (unless im mistaken I'd be happy to learn more.) Is it possible for the approach temperature to be able to shut a chiller down? I don't see any points for it.

Chiller Specs
20160808_095038.jpg

[furikazashi]

Normal Running conditions
20160808_095256.jpg20160808_095259.jpg20160808_095303.jpg20160808_095305.jpg

[furikazashi]

1 time the surge protection shut down chiller
20160808_094939.jpg20160808_094942.jpg20160808_094944.jpg20160808_094947.jpg

[furikazashi]

another time the surge protection kicked out the chiller 20160808_095011.jpg20160808_095013.jpg20160808_095015.jpg20160808_095017.jpg

[Tycho]

Hi Furikazasi

Welcome to RE


I have gone over your data, but without knowing what refrigerant you have in your system, I can not begin to make an educated guess...

[furikazashi]

Sorry if you missed it. On the first post are the specs of the entire build. R123

[Tycho]

Sorry if you missed it. On the first post are the specs of the entire build. R123

Sorry I missed the specs in your first post...

I downloaded all your other pictures and went through them, however, as R-123 and R-11 are unknown to me, so I have to say pass here...

However, surging in a chiller usually occurs when there is not enough heat transfer happening, causing an excess boiling of the refrigerant when the compressor increases capacity, so maybe is to much oil in your chiller preventing the ***** to cover all your pipes, but that's just a guess...

I'm sorry I couldn't help you further

[furikazashi]

-bump- for keeping alive

[furikazashi]

-bump- for keeping alive

[chemi-cool]

R-11 and R-123[retrofit for R-11] are not in use in Europe and USA for many years now.
They are HCFC.

[furikazashi]

R-22 will continue to be produced until 2020and R-123 can be used in new equipment until 2020, and the refrigerant will continue to be produced until 2030.

[Magoo]

surging on centrifugal s indicates air in system and high discharge pressures, the surge noise is discharge gas pushing back through impeller to the low side

[furikazashi]

Looking into alot lately one thing sticks out to me. The con denser saturation temperature seems high (normally around 100-109f) I've checked the chiller pump to make sure it's loading up right. The impeller wasn't cut down ( full 9inches) I think it's so.etching to do with the water flow from my chiller tower but I can't find a remedy.

[Magoo]

possibly needs condenser tube clean

[Scramjetman]

Surging occurs when the discharge pressure is high enough, and the suction pressure is low enough to cause a backflow through the compressor impeller. It usually occurs when the chiller is operating outside its normal parameters.

If your saturated discharge temps are high, I think you are on the right track by looking at the condenser circuit. Check the strainers, and as Magoo mentioned the tubes may need a clean. Make sure your controls have the tower fan at 100% when the surge occurs.

Also check your load is not too low (ie your supply water temp hasn't been screwed down too low to try and get more cooling out of undersized AHU's) You can get the machine out of the surge zone by taking action to raise the suction pressure, lower the head pressure or both.

[Scramjetman]

Furikazashi, any news on this? Did you manage to resolve the fault? We'd be interested to see what you discovered.

[furikazashi]

Sorry for the delay in response I was still running through a few condensor motions. I replaced the Towers circuit setter for good measure, cleaned the curtains again and removed all gauges to ensure they were working properly for measurements. I took out the r123 and weighed it, low and behold it was 300lb off. Last time this happened was 5 years ago. There is a slow leak and since this chiller runs under a vacuum its extremely tough to find. the chiller holds 900lbs of *****. It is running very smooth as to date but today there was a shutdown due to a power failure, the voltage steadily declined from 136-0 since mid-day yesterday so I'm assuming its an energy issue and is normal. Thank everyone for your continued support I'll be happy to answer any questions regarding this topic if anyone needs for research purposes

[Magoo]

If you have lost a load of refrigerant the auto purger is dumping it, ( not sure if your system has one ) but most do.
The vessel has a low range pressure relief valve on high side, blank that after recovering all refrigerant and pressure test with nitrogen and find the leak and repair.