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  1. #1
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    Sep 2007
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    Why is Green Energy called Clean Energy?

    Green and Clean Energy makes "Greasy" Energy.
    Decide for yourselves Guys!
    No-one in their right mind is going to argue with the need for cleaner energy production.
    What many in the know don't tell you is the expense of it all.
    Basically without the enhanced tariffs most of it would be uneconomical.
    Even so things are improving.

    My point is best made if I list the Various experiences that have been explained to me.

    Producing "Free or Green energy is one thing.
    To add it to any National or regional Electricity Grid, which like a river flows at a controlled rate away from the power stations.
    To add this Green produced power, it has to be pushed against the outgoing flow.
    I.e. if the incoming voltage were 230v (U.K. std. Supply) the power voltage / amperage needs to be greater than that being supplied.

    Scenario 1.

    So Historically the Man that controls the power output from the power station through our Grid System. Arrived at work put his feet up and watched the steady base flow of power.
    Maybe occasionally adjusting Variable outputs ect!
    Nowadays the same man is on his feet all day trying to balance the power put out, against that being shoved back in!
    As More and More alternative sources come online the more the controller has to try and trim load.
    Apparently as wind flow across the country, affects the wind turbines and cloud movement affects the Sunshine on the Solar arrays. The control of the power outputs become more of an issue.
    Net result, that instead of way down the supply line having fluctuating voltages the supply a few miles from the Power Station is "Unclean"!

    Scenario 2.

    I am told by an industry VSD specialist, with whom I was discussing the major power fluctuations we are experiencing.
    On a site which has a 900KW Solar array on its roof and I can see the power station.
    Germany as many may know has invested heavily in Alternative Energy, when something like 17% production was reached. They lost control of their Grid.
    What is not known is that the amount of alternative fluctuating power being produced makes their power supply "Greasy" Unclean in other words.
    The end result is Austria and Switzerland both used to purchase Electricity from Germany.
    Both No Longer do so!
    The supply became to unstable.

    Scenario 3.
    Said site has state of the art Scada monitoring equipment controlling the Refrigeration Plants and site alarms etc.
    There are 2 incoming mains supplies in a loop around the site. At 1 end there is a very large Generator with has a control system which monitors power supply to 1/2 the site.
    A power cut see the Generator kick in. What happens (This is my simplistic theory) when the power blips down past the controllers set point.
    The incoming Power drops off whilst the generator syncs with the incoming supply. This blip the causes the Scada system to see a power drop (Albeit Momentarily).
    Resulting in a plant control system that sometimes shuts the plant off thinking it has a Ammonia level 1 shutdown.
    Or at best the loss of communications causes anything up to 200 generic alarms on the system.
    Come spring, Autumn / Winter these shutdown become more frequent.
    Adjusting the set points on the switch over control has helped a lot.
    This issue is on-going but improving none the less!

    Incidentally the other half of the site which also has a generator system but no Solar array rarely ever trips.

    The more I talk to people the more I realise that the huge increase within our and other industries of VSD and computerised controls.
    Are not accounting for the increasingly Dirty supplies we are Creating.

    Everyone is talking about Clean Energy what we are not discussing is how little control of that being produced and introduced into our networks!
    Having a lot of spare power may be great, but damming up the supplies is not so good.

    How many of us criticise poorly thought out applications on this forum.

    Well I for 1 want to criticise the continued blind growth of a supply that is getting more uncontrollable.
    Anyone else noticed similar?
    Last edited by Grizzly; 10-06-2016 at 06:32 PM.

    Despite the High Cost of Living it still remains Popular!

  2. #2
    Brian_UK's Avatar
    Brian_UK is online now Moderator I am starting to push the Mods: of RE Site Moderator : and general nice guy
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
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    Re: Why is Green Energy called Clean Energy?

    Interesting scenarios Grizzly, something I wasn't aware of.
    Brian - Newton Abbot, Devon, UK
    Retired March 2015
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  3. #3
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    Sep 2007
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    Re: Why is Green Energy called Clean Energy?

    My point exactly Brian.
    Everyone talking about shoving energy in!
    But little is being said about that effect it has.
    more and more I am seeing Variable speed drive and motor failure issues!
    Who can remember the 10% voltage tolerances on motors?
    Remember it's not so much the higher volts but the lower that do the damage.
    A drop in volts across a motor will raise the Amps.
    Power suppliers are even more reluctant to talk about it.

    VSD systems require supply filters.
    The stability of the supplies is getting worse, Greasy is what I am calling it.
    Despite the High Cost of Living it still remains Popular!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Re: Why is Green Energy called Clean Energy?

    Hi Grizzly,
    an interesting read and scenarios, must admit that VSD s are intolerant to voltage variations even minor fluctuations, including hertz minor fluctuations. The national grid syncronous control here is getting better though.
    There is big push here for solar and wind farm self sufficiency and back feeding into national grid, those green tree hugging nut cases. 90% plus power generation here is hydro generated. Most of the balance is geothermal, the real stuff that under ground volcanic stuff with condensate pumped back underground , kilometers deep.

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