EcoAir Operating Temperature Range

[dudos]

Hi,

Bought an Ecoair ECO1216SD yesterday from here...

http://www.breathingspace.co.uk/air-...nditioning-c10

(And after reading a few posts here I'm beginning to regret it before its even connected, but it's done now, maybe...)

I can't phone the place I bought it (only open Mon-Fri) but before I get chance to speak to them was hoping for some info/advice here...

The thing is part fitted, (mounted on wall, pipes connected to inside unit and ran through hole in wall, but nothings connected to the outside bit yet)

Then I discovered in the manual, it says the operating temps for Cooling are only 18'C to 43'C which is completely useless for my needs. The unit was intended to go in a gym type room and would be on right through the winter. (Heating temps are -10'C to 43'c, but thats irrelevant it will never be used as a heater)

Other similar systems on that place eg Midea KFR23 or the Midea KFR33 have a minimum temp for both heating and cooling of -15.

When I was talking to the guy on the phone prior to my purchase, he told me all those units are pretty much the same, and recommended the one I bought. But now I'm a bit wiser, obviously they are not!

(I'd also explained to him it was for Gym type room, and would be used in the winter etc).

Anyway 2 questions...

Why do these different units Ecoair vs Midea have such different temp ranges for cooling?
What would be the result of trying to use the Ecoair as a cooler in temps close to between 5 to -5'c?

I'm not going to connect the outdoor pipes until I know a bit more (hopefully from you guys) in case there's a chance I can get a refund/swap, but as its partly fitted, I'm not confident he'll accept it back.

Thanks
Steve.

[still learning]

I have to ask.
Do you carry out a preasure test and use a vac pump and torr gauge. When. Connecting your pipe work , or does you instruction manual show. A chap. Venting gas. As the flare nuts are done up?

[dudos]

Yep, final step in the manual is Vacuum pump with torr gauge to -0.1Mpa, then a pressure check for leaks.

But I haven't got that far. I don't want to connect the system up where it is if I can't use in the winter.

If that's the case, my options are:-

Hope the seller will exchange it for one of those Midea's that can operate at low temps

Or, move this EcoAir to somewhere else in the house, (lounge, dining room perhaps) for use in summer and just foot the bill for another unit - So if that happens are the Midea's any good either? At least they operate in the temp range I need.

[Anz]

Only 18C ? How cold u want it? Most a/c bar Daikin only show 18c on the remote it's air off is goin to be roughly 8-10c.

Tbh I'd be more inclined to pay a bit more for a Mitsi or Daikin

[dudos]

I am referring to the outside air temps for the heat exchange unit, not of the air produced indoors.

[Anz]

My bad misread ur post. That surely must be a typo? Or Maybe cos it's a piece of ****?

[dudos]

Don't think its a typo - Its the same in the printed manual, on the EcoAir website specs and also on specs for website I bought the unit from.

[monkey spanners]

Inverter or non inverter?

If its a non inverter, might just need a fan speed control on the condenser fan, also its illegal for you to fit it yourself....

[dudos]

The EcoAir is referred to as a "Mk2 Inverter", the Midea a "Super Inverter".

Are these just PR/sales hype terms or do they actually distinguish different forms of Inverters?

For other bits I've read around the net Today (which in the end I think I've answered my own initial question, but I'd be happy to be corrected and better informed if so), some heat exchangers have an internal heating system which keeps the refrigerant at an operating pressure and allows them to operate normally at lower ambient temps.

Is it that these Midea's have this heater, and the EcoAir's don't?

And also read that attempting to run a non-heated system at lower than recommended temps will mean the gases have low pressure and the heat exchanger will struggle because of it and eventually (fairly quickly) destroy the condenser.

Btw, I am only drilling holes in things (the wall), bolting things to the wall (brackets etc), mounting the system to the brackets, and screwing the (pre-flared, pre-bolted, pre-insulated) pipes to the valves at correct torque settings. I will then call out a gas registered fitter to turn on the system (i.e. open the gas/liquid valves, vacuum the sytsem and check for leaks). I have been informed this is enough for it to be a legal installation.

[al]

unit has no low ambient control for outdoor, swap it or fit it somewhere else, it may run in lower ambient but you'll invalidate warranty and possibly kill the compressor.

On an aside and playing devils advocate would you not have gotten a system installed for close to this money?

al

[dudos]

Cheers Al, confirms my thoughts/readings. I've taken it down now, so its ready to be boxed, moved, sold or whatever happens to it.

I left the outside wall bracket up, something will have to go there! And hopefully the 50mm core hole in the wall can be re-used.

Not sure what to do with this one, (I doubt he'll accept it for a return/swap, which would be ideal scenario), but yes use elsewhere in the house is the only other option I guess.

[frank]

I've supplied a couple of Fujitsu window rattlers before to a customer and they were rated for operation down to +21C. They are probably designed for warmer climates.
These bottom end units usually have a capillary metering device and no head pressure control which can cause evaporator frosting in low ambients.

[MikeHolm]

Just an thought...... why not use it to its rated temp then use free cooling below that. Surely, you can cool the gym when it 10 or 15C out with properly designed fans and dampers. Why spend the money to run an AC when it is available for free?

[dudos]

Thanks for the replies so far.

Well Changing the topic slightly...

I'm resigned to my fate of this being a general mistake overall now, and (unless a miracle happens and the shop changes it), I will not be looking not at an alternative from them as all they stock are EcoAir and Midea's. Instead I'll get some quotes from professional fitters who do what I understand to be good brands. (Daikin, Mitsubishi etc), so thanks for the references to those.

But I don't want to see £500 go down the pan with this EcoAir unit and looking around the house where I could possible have a use for it, the only way I can use it would be if I can mount the inside unit vertically as opposed to horizontally. This is the only 2 possible walls have windows and french doors on them and there's no space above there. So it would have to go next to the window.

Is this feasible?

[install monkey]

horizontal only

[dudos]

Can they be ceiling mounted instead of on the wall?

[monkey spanners]

Fit it and see how it works, it won't magically stop working below 18C, just maybe not as well, i doubt your gym will need much cooling if the weather is much below 18C anyway.

[dudos]

Sorry, but believe me the "gym" will need cooling.

It's not a gym as such, but an indoor cycling room. (Bike attached to Turbo trainer/Rollers)

In previous winters I've been using just a fan to circulate air and I completely drench (to the point of being able to wring out), a fairly chunky tennis headband every 30 mins. And each training session is a 3 hour ride. So I start with 6 dry headbands, and end up with a pile of soggy ones at the end (I actually own about 50 of these headbands to get me through a weeks training).

And I drink about 750ml of balanced electrolite fluids per hour to combat lost sweat.

And that is with a 16'' Honeywell fan pointing directly at my head about 2' away.

So not only does the room get hot, it also gets very damp (windows are completely covered in condensation by the time I stop).

I usually open the door of the room (which opens directly to the outside), to cool it down for 10-15 mins before a ride, but need to close door to ride (and there are no openable windows).

The temp of the room starts of at about 10-12'C, but it then (quickly) rises to around 23' by the end of the session. (I'm burning in excess of 2000 calories in 2-3 hours). And this is in the depths of the coldest parts of winter.

Also its no good pumping outside air directly in, as this air would be simply too cold in the middle of winter and would cause just as much (more probably) uncomfort (eg freezing air hitting elbows, knees, toes etc).

This year I was hoping to setup a regulated air system which would hopefully keep the temp of the room constant (or at least, lower at best it could) and reduce this heat & sweat.

And I'm not talking about running this 1 or 2'C below recommended temps, I'm wanting to run it at zero/sub-zero outdoor temps (basically when its too icy/snowy to ride outside on the roads).

I'm not trying to be arrogant about it, but please don't try to assume the environment I'm dealing with.

All the literature I've read said this will be seriously bad/dangerous, the aircon would freeze, never really work properly, and would certainly destroy the compressor in a very short space of time.

Anyway, I've given up on the EcoAir for this purpose, now I just want to know if I can use it elsewhere in the house by mounting on a ceiling as there's no space left above the windows/doors where it could possible have a use.

[frank]

Given the amount of moisture that you are talking about, I would suggest that you get a proper calculation done to ensure that your unit doesn't spend all of it's operating time handling the latent load and unable to maintain temps in the room.

It sounds as though you would benefit more from a properly designed ventilation system with air tempering, as you are UK based, where the ambient temps are generally lower than your desired room temp.

[Anz]

You can't mount a wall mount a/c on the ceiling it will piss water on the floor unless ur willing to put a large drip tray underneath.

Can u not cut a piece of ply to partially put across ur window to mount it? I understand this could look abit crap but that's ur only option tbh


Stick it on eBay otherwise

[install monkey]

do better with a nrs beer master or other similar celler cooler- good for down to 10 deg inside the room, high air velocity and can be hung from a ceiling

[install monkey]

534873_225951050845220_723811985_n.jpg
amazing what no more nails can hold up!

dont try this please

[dudos]

So the EcoAir in packed away in the garage.

The only affordable Daikin is no good either

http://www.daikin.co.uk/binaries/320...511-284611.pdf

Operation range
Cooling
Ambient
Min.~Max.
°CDB
10~46

Heating
Ambient
Min.~Max.
°CWB
-15~20

Still searching...

[dudos]

Ps. If you had heard some of the phone calls or seen some of the emails I received from this seller you'd be amazed.

"Whats an Ambient Temp Controller?",

"People read all sorts of things on the internet and get funny ideas, I've been selling these for 20 years, I don't need to read anything else on the internet",

"Just turn it on, no need for leak checks or vacuuming..."

[dudos]

"What do you do for a living?"

[dudos]

So this Midea range seem to go to 0'c outdoor temps which would just about do (its very rarely sub zero during the hours I train in the winter (6pm-9pm).

http://www.midea.com/my/consumer/air...neola_inverter

eg

http://www.midea.com/my/consumer/air...19_51851.shtml

Operation temperature
Outdoor Cooling ℃ 0~50
Indoor Cooling ℃ ≥17

Which means it'll work outside down to 0 and (attempt) to cool the room to 17'c (which would be better than 24'c)

Are they really so bad brand?

[dudos]

Right, we have a winner.. (Unless Hitatchi should be avoided?)

http://www.saturnsales.co.uk/Hitachi...eat-Pumps.html

I had to register on the Hitatchi site to get at the technical manuals

http://www.hitachiaircon.com/argws/en/ranges

But for those RAS 23/35HFS which are in the price range

It states:-

"COOLING OPERATION
Use the device for cooling when the outdoor temperature is -10 to 42°C.
If humidity is very high (over 80%) indoors, some dew may form on the air outlet grille of the indoor
unit."

"HEATING OPERATION
• Use the device for heating when the outdoor temperature is under 21°C.
When it is too warm (over 21°C), the heating function may not work in order to protect the device.
• In order to keep reliability of the device, please use this device above -15°C of the outdoor
temperature."

"DEHUMIDIFYING OPERATION
Use the device for dehumidifying when the room temperature is over 16°C.
When it is under 15°C, the dehumidifying function will not work."


This is PERFECT.

Are these pre-gassed? I'll find out when I suppose while talking to them before I purchase.

[al]

The Hitachi is good kit