Daikin+MitsE ~ Replacement technology, a real fight

[Makeit go Right]

I find it quite remarkable that with R22 about to die a full death in 5 months that the two up-market brands -- their distributors -- are so flatfooted on replacement technology kit.

The manufacturers have gone to great lengths to design the equipment that would operate with the olde R22 pipework (yes no burn-outs… yes, pipework thick enough, etc etc) and the kit is supposed to be sold.

I called one of the main distributors of Mitsi Electric -- kit that I know is good for replacement tech -- and the salesman tells me only their supersonic Power Inverter is good for replacement tech. All the rest is not replacement tech. After some disputing with him and him checking with other sages he discovers that standard inverters, mr Slim, and M-series are all replacement tech. Big surprise.

Okay, Try Daikin. My usual distributor does not know what I am talking about with the term “replacement tech” and even sounds flaking on reusing R22 pipework – thinks I want to run the new R410a kit with R22 refrigerant running around the system .... not a clue basically. Offers the cheapo Siesta Kit – Well, is that suitable for use on R22 pipework? YES, but I will just check with Daikin. Comes back, well, NO, the Siesta is no good for R22 replacement.

I tried the largest distributor of Daikin kit and they tell me that ‘as a rule we do not recommend reusing r22 pipework’. Great, well, fine but which Daikin kit is good for replacement (I don’t really give a flying whatsit about your own opinions)?
None of it is recommended for replacement – we do not recommend…..

Now I know Daikin have spent some time and money on replacement kit design and I have replaced 10kw systems several times (after complying with their dos and don’ts chart). So I know that at least some of the range is good for replacement tech. What about the smaller stuff (other than the Siesta thing)? “We do not recommend …..”

It is a hard fight to get some sense from their distributors on this subject. And very strange that the manufacturers design the kit and these distributors know very little about it and some don't want to sell it, even.

So, here we are, with just 5 months left, and these sales types know very little about replacing R22 systems.

[Denni]

Hello Makeit go Right.
Check your "Visitor Messages".

Best regards.

[Neddy]

Interesting. My company got a quote for Daikin twin split. A 200 outdoor I think. Replacement technology.They gave the job to a sub contractor. I saw the quote from Daikin which had two new refnets as well as the outdoor and indoors.As we were using the existing piping which had two refnets I asked my office to question Daikin about the refnets. The Daikin guy said O you need to change the 1' 1/8 pipe as it doesn't comply with F Gas regulations and run in a new 7/8 pipe. I guess old R22 1' 1/8 pipe is 18 gauge and R410A 1'1/8 has to be 16 gauge. But what's the point of replacement technology then? If we were to change all the 1' 1/8 you might as well change the liquid line also and put in a normal R410A system in.
By the time this was found out the sub contractor had fitted the new units. Luckily they will spend most of the time cooling so the 1'1/8 pipe should be fine.

[r.bartlett]

as we have said before the manufacturers construct their coils out of paper thin pipe so I wouldn't worry about the inter connecting pipes.

[Makeit go Right]

I had another one like this. I was just checking in case Fujitsu had something to offer. (not yet)

But a guy (can't identify him) said his area something said the Fujitsu kit was fine. They work okay on R22 pipework, no problem. Pulling the string a bit further, it seems that Fujitsu were not quite in line with that Area thingy guy's ideas .....

I just know, out there somewhere, there are a few Fujitsus, plugged onto R22 pipework.

[Makeit go Right]

Best to actually measure the pipe thickness but I understood that it was just the soft that was a worry at those sizes. The half-hard 7/8" and 1+1/8" was normally fine.

Actually, best thing is to pressure test before you commit.

[r.bartlett]

I had another one like this. I was just checking in case Fujitsu had something to offer. (not yet)

But a guy (can't identify him) said his area something said the Fujitsu kit was fine. They work okay on R22 pipework, no problem. Pulling the string a bit further, it seems that Fujitsu were not quite in line with that Area thingy guy's ideas .....

I just know, out there somewhere, there are a few Fujitsus, plugged onto R22 pipework.

try amp they do tosh, mhi and fujitsu.

[Makeit go Right]

Ta for that.

[install monkey]

mitsi elec use hab oil in all their kit- which is compatible with mineral oil- basically if you use old r22 pipework tail each end- stick a 410 system on it - it will be ok, a company that i work for use mhi and tail everything- no flushing out- bish bash bosh- not had a failure yet

[Denni]

Hello!

mitsi elec use hab oil in all their kit- which is compatible with mineral oil

It was before (as first version of replace technology).
At this time Mitsubishi Electric use PVE oil "FV50S" on RAC outdoor unit (see the service manual):
MUZ-FH
MUZ-EF
MUZ-SF
MUZ-GF
MXZ-6C
MXZ-8B
SUZ-KA**VA4

HUB oil (NEO22) use in next models:
MXZ-2C/3C/4C/5C
MUZ-HJ
But i think HUB oil will be changed in the next time to PVE.