Why Are We Doing This Shxx

[headgasket]

Hi guy’s I have been doing this **** for nearly 25 years, you tell people that you are a refrigeration in engineer and they look at you and think white thing in there kitchen and you want to shout fuxk off it’s more than that we are more than a electrician more than a plumber also a chemical engineer, who get’s called out 24/7 365 days a year only us I think and now we deserve more than we get who is up for starting a union. Can you imaging if all went on a sicky for one day what would happen every thing in the world has refrigeration associated with it. So why aren’t we on £20 an hr it’s us who do the work not the bosses. It only take’s one drop of water to bring down a dam. Long lives the revolution

[chillin out]

So why aren’t we on £20 an hr it’s us who do the work not the bosses.

Your on less than that????

LOL

I agree with you, but its all down to price war to get the contracts.

You nor anybody else will or can change that.

Its a $h1te job and is under-paid but somebody`s got to do it and it does pay the bills.

Welcome to the site, hope you can share your exp with us.

Chillin

[headgasket]

been on here for some time but changed my name, just finished being on call and am pissed off and drunk, i love what i do but what the hell if only

[eggs]

all i can say is get your self on installs matey, if your half decent you'll double your £20/hr for you and a mate.
Milk it for 12mth until the Poles and Latvians nick your work, then go back on service for the minimum wage................or become a plumber.

cheers

eggs

[rbartlett]

until we ca get a full corgi type registration then we simply cannot bill the customer what the jobs 'worth'.

Full registration will bring many headaches but it will also allow us to up the rates.

20 years ago i would have arguments with people that refrigeration and a/c engineers actually existed!!

times move on but sadly engineering in the UK is still undervalued.

eggs is slightly off course saying 40+ for a man and mate. this applies to a few pipe bashers who are s/e. I think HG is talking about employed guys and as such they are down around 10-15 ph.

cheers

richard

[headgasket]

I sincerely believe we should be registered like corgi a gas fitter is only working on mbar pressures, as for us with 410a and if co2 becomes popular 30 50 bar very dangerous to us and the public,

[rbartlett]

I sincerely believe we should be registered like corgi a gas fitter is only working on mbar pressures, as for us with 410a and if co2 becomes popular 30 50 bar very dangerous to us and the public,

Indeed, one of the first to propose this was Norman Mitchell way back in the early eighties.

http://mitchells-glos.dyndns.org/

I myself at the time thought it was unnecessary as it was -generally- only trained guys who worked on fridges so it was almost 'self regulating'.

I didn't change my mind till the early nighties and have regularly argued for it since.

Whilst generally considered slightly 'mad' Norman was totally right on this issue ;-)

However things are changing and full registration will happen..

cheers

richard

[frank]

So why aren’t we on £20 an hr it’s us who do the work not the bosses

The next time you walk into the office on a Monday morning and say " where am I going today then Boss?" just consider that, if the Boss hadn't been doing his job the answer would be - NOWHERE

[chillin out]

The next time you walk into the office on a Monday morning and say " where am I going today then Boss?" just consider that, if the Boss hadn't been doing his job the answer would be - NOWHERE

Your a boss then Frank?

In this and any other job, its always "us and them"...oh and the plonkers in the office that hand out the jobs.

Chillin

[wambat]

Your a boss then Frank?

In this and any other job, its always "us and them"...oh and the plonkers in the office that hand out the jobs.

Chillin

whats a plonker?

[eggs]

hello,
a plonker is a way of calling somebody a kind of idiot,or a fool maybe, in a joking way.

cheers

eggs

[old gas bottle]

a plonker is that guy in your avitar mr bush !!, i to have been doing this job a long time[35 years[ dont know anything else but been self employed for 24,there,s 4 of us now and its harder than ever, far too much paperwork and bull**** and the customers are a bunch of arragent assholes demanding more and more,if i had my time again i would have chose to be a multi millionaire !!

[Deejey]

Acronym Definition
PLONKER Person with Little or No Knowledge

[Deejey]

Once a fridgie always a fridgie. I started my apprenticeship in 1955 so I been in the game for 51 years. Cut my teeth on Sulphur Dioxide & low side floats. retired for 4 years couldn't handle the boredom. So I went back to teaching refrigeration which I started doing in 1983. Not too many can get a permanent job at 65yo. the trade has been very good to me. Worked in almost every aspect of it. Spent 10 years in Asia teaching R & A/C there. Had to keep abreast of the technolgy as it changed. All fridgies have 4 things in common. Dedication, brains, stuffed knees and bad backs.

[US Iceman]

All fridgies have 4 things in common. Dedication, brains, stuffed knees and bad backs.

You forgot to add hearing loss.

[frank]

Your a boss then Frank?

Yes. Does that make me a "them" or an "us" ?

[chillin out]

Yes. Does that make me a "them" or an "us" ?

Both...LOL depends who is talking.

All fridgies have 4 things in common. Dedication, brains, stuffed knees and bad backs.

You forgot to add hearing loss.

And skin that never gets clean, constant cuts and bruises, nagging from the other half for getting home late, nagging for getting home early.

Chillin

[headgasket]

This is going a little off track, what I am trying to say is the lack of respect and recognition to our trade or should I say profession, a few years ago my wife and I went to a party it turned out that we were the only couple that did not have a degree between us, in conversation I was asked my occupation duly replied that I was a refrigeration engineer response eyes glaze over move on, this got me pissed off, I am as good as any one no more no less, so next time when asked I said I was a environmental systems Analyst , reaction join the club, so should we have to change our name to get better recognition or what ?

[Abe]

I am as good as any one no more no less, so next time when asked I said I was a environmental systems Analyst , reaction join the club, so should we have to change our name to get better recognition or what ?

In the pecking order of things, we dont rank that highly........but that is because fridge techs dont have:


Accredited training schemes
Qualifications and titles
Societies which control entry and give license to practice

In countries where they are organised, you will find they rank more highly.

So, accept where we are........its our fault really.

If fridge techs want greater acknowledgement, then the ball is firmly in our court to elevate our status, and with it........earning capacity


Simply, thats life.........No more, No less

[Lc_shi]

Simply, thats life.........No more, No less

I appreciate this sentence by Abe

Life is both fair and unfair. If you're in China, the salary for a common refrigeration engineer is around £1 /hr,if £2 /hr,you're at the top level. How do you think ?
Chinese has a saying: The self-content guy is happy

Thanks for God,I live

rgds
LC

[US Iceman]

If fridge techs want greater acknowledgement, then the ball is firmly in our court to elevate our status...

A very good way of stating this. If we don't like something we should get off of our backsides and do something about it.

If anyone can purchase refrigerant, then anyone can do service repairs, right? Not hardly the case.

If we want to be thought of as different, then we should act different. High integrity, professionalism, and fixing the system properly the first time can set you apart from any other (what's the term?, Oh yes I remember) plonker.

Abe, I could not have said what you stated any better. If we do not control our own destiny then someone else will.

Now that's not much fun, is it?

[jamcool]

Agree,Agree,Agree for myself have not being in the trade very long but I think I have found my calling as Iceman and the others have said if we dont get our acts together all will try to walk on us I rank refrigeration right up there with all the other top professions,if any one can think of any area of life now that refrigeration or infact air conditioning does not play an important role they can have my next 3 months pay check .There are organisation out there but maybe we are not talking loud or strong enough.
In my neck of the woods we have what they call "cowboy" doing all type of botch jobs and giving the good guys a bad name,these guys need to be told to fly straight or don't fly at all.POWER TO THE FRIDGIE

[old gas bottle]

same old thing the world over,i dont think we will beat it as its caused by the customer by the famous old two words, HOW MUCH !

[headgasket]

How strange it is and universal our own band of brothers, we all must have a similar frame of mind to do this job (correctly), I would do this even if I was not paid I like it so much, but it will be hard for all of us to stand as one as we are so fragmented , I am happy but I do like to dream.

[Abe]

I am happy but I do like to dream.

We can stop dreaming.

At the moment I am in the throes of exam preparation.

After June. I will look into the aspect of setting up a body that is representative of members, and try with the help of other members how we can improve upon our recognition, our say in issues, our perception, our standing.

There are bodies existing presently which do this, In the UK we have a body I know, we can look at them and see how effective they are at representing the engineer.

The only way forward I think is accredidation, so the engineer who is qualified is licensed and his qualification is recognised.

We become "card carrying" members, just like "Equity", you want to perform in the arts, you have to be a member of Equity

This sets him apart from the guy who buys a vac pump from Ebay, and sets up as an air con installater.

In the meantime, if members have a view, feel free to provide input.

US Iceman puts it perfectly when he says..........We want proffessionalism and ethics......

Revolution is not the way forward. Good practice and organisation is the way forward. Becoming an effective lobby that the government will listen to, will refer to when it legislates.

Thats where we want to be.

Look the Part, Act the Part, Portray yourself as the Business,

People will listen.......and look, and start to take us seriously

Then we can remove the "rotten" wood from our structure and get ahead.....

[old gas bottle]

thats a very nice speach abe and something we are all hoping for, but back in the real world same as lots of other trades the dollar dictates,and its the wealthy bonus seaking suites aswell as the corner shop who cant afford to pay proper rates,the other problem is like in the plumbing trade lots of good old timers have left the trade because of the amount of schoolwork and legistlation involved,thats leaving oppertunities for overeducated individules that can tell you the cubic capacity of a jar of pickled onions but cant get the top off !! there needs to be alot of thought before action. just my humble opinion.

[phil68]

A mate of mine walked out of his job driving busses the other week & came out on the job with me for a few days as he was interested in getting into the trade. He thought all we did was change door seals & thermostats. Sufficed to say he was quite shocked
I do remember the lecturer at college telling us that we were basically plumbers with brains & not to expect salaries that reflected our skills fairly

[frank]

I do remember the lecturer at college telling us that we were basically plumbers

From what I've seen, Plumbers get those big rubber gloves out of the van, put them on all the way up to the armpits, then go searching down blocked toilet drains with their fingers for the offending blockage.

In my book - thats light years away from what I do

[Peter_1]

Your a boss then Frank?

In this and any other job, its always "us and them"...oh and the plonkers in the office that hand out the jobs.

Chillin

Well..., what you're waiting for then making big money?

[rbartlett]

[QUOTE=frank]From what I've seen, Plumbers get those big rubber gloves out of the van, put them on all the way up to the armpits, then go searching down blocked toilet drains with their fingers for the offending blockage.

In my book - thats light years away from what I do [/QUOTE


No point wearing gloves when you're up to your neck in it frank !!

Cheers

Richard

[rbartlett]

I remember feeling quite proud years ago saying "I could get a job in pretty much any country in the world me"

Little did I realise this was because we were so poorly treated there is always a worldwide shortage !!

Cheers

Richard

[Temprite]

nagging from the other half for getting home late, nagging for getting home early.

Chillin

Dont forget also we probably have one of the highest divorce rates.

I know many a divorced fridgie.

[frank]

Hi Richard

did you get my e-mail?

[rbartlett]

Hi Richard

did you get my e-mail?

I would have to say no Frank I didn't :-(


Cheers

Richard

[US Iceman]

The only way forward I think is accreditation, so the engineer who is qualified is licensed and his qualification is recognised.

Does the UK have any type of registration for businesses and people who work on refrigeration or HVAC systems?

In some cities here the local governments have a requirement for a business license. Let's say the business is for refrigeration installations and service. The owner must have what is typically called a masters license. The next level down is a journeyman's license.

The apprentice needs to have a, yes you guessed it, an apprentice license.

Each one of these is applied for by successful completion of a test.

There is a new type of certification for ammonia refrigeration systems that is gaining a lot of headway. RETA.

Each certification type is tested in advancing levels of difficulty.

The one problem with some type of accreditation is that the certification and testing needs to be done to some formal agency standard. For the ammonia people here in the US, this agency is called ANSI. This should be final sometime this year.

This level of certification also implies very strict training guidelines for the subject matter and the people who do the instruction.

There may be a British or EU equivalent.

I'm not suggesting a union mentality, just some means of putting well qualified individuals in an active role.

The pending F gas legislation is one area. Read the requirements and find out the details. If some part is too restrictive call your local politician and discuss it.

If you set back and wait for it to happen, it is too late to do anything.

The issue is one of advocacy. Any formal group needs to support the industry and offer some means of accredited recognition and skill sets.

If you can't pass the test, you don't get the license, you don't work.

Those who have spent their lives doing this have every reason to be upset when they loose a project to someone working out of their car.

[Lc_shi]

I know there is PE licence in America. Is it a must for a HVACR engineer?

rgds
LC

[US Iceman]

Hi LC,

The PE (Professional Engineer) has several categories; ME (for mechanical engineer), Chem. E. (for chemical engineer), EE, (for electrical engineer), etc..

A PE is discipline specific. An ME should not be doing the work of an EE and so on. However, the people I have seen here in the US who have a very good concept of refrigeration engineering requirements are those who have taken ME and Chem. E courses.

To my knowledge there are no registrations as a Refrigeration Engineer (as engineering is defined here). I don't believe there any curriculum's for refrigeration engineering either. At least here in the US.

This is a subset of thermodynamics, fluid mechanics, heat transfer, etc.

In the EU there may be universities that offer a 4 year degree in refrigeration engineering. If anyone knows of these I would be interested to learn more about the courses and colleges.

HVAC is another one of these areas that are comprised of various college courses.

I believe most of the true training takes place after college though.

[Deejey]

You forgot to add hearing loss.

yeah I did. How could I forget seeing as I have hearing aids in both ears...the bonus is...;I can switch off whenever I want

[Deejey]

here in australia they have just introduced a new training package ...Advanced Diploma of Refrigeration and Air-Conditioning. Engineering... it includes
Advanced psychometrics; commercial refrigeration design; communication; computer aided drafting; developing projects and preparing reports and seminars; management; noise and vibration control; refrigeration systems analysis; statics; computer aided maintenance; and HVAC systems.

[Andy]

yeah I did. How could I forget seeing as I have hearing aids in both ears...the bonus is...;I can switch off whenever I want

I must have a few years more to do as I am only half deaf in one ear

Only been at refrigeration since 1989

Kind Regards. Andy

[phil68]

I must have a few years more to do as I am only half deaf in one ear

Only been at refrigeration since 1989

Kind Regards. Andy

PARDON?!!

[Andy]

PARDON?!!

ehh what did you say

[chillin out]

Why are you all saying garden???

Chillin

[US Iceman]

...the bonus is...;I can switch off whenever I want

My daughter does the same thing when I say something she doesn't want to hear. In her case I think it is called "selective hearing".

If I say shopping, she can hear this from a mile away.

Go figure.

[Deejey]

My daughter does the same thing when I say something she doesn't want to hear. In her case I think it is called "selective hearing".

If I say shopping, she can hear this from a mile away.

Go figure.

Women love to shop. It is the one area of the world where they feel like they're actually in control.

[phil68]

Women love to shop. It is the one area of the world where they feel like they're actually in control.

And why is it when you go shopping with them for an item of clothing or shoes they look in twenty different shops & then go back & buy from the first shop you visited? Aaargh!!!

[US Iceman]

And why is it when you go shopping with them for an item of clothing or shoes they look in twenty different shops & then go back & buy from the first shop you visited?

Do you want to see a woman get really mad? When they go back to the first store to get the clothes or shoes and find they have been sold! Oops.

[chillin out]

I have been banned from shopping with my wife..

She says that I 'show her up'...LOL

Not that Im bothered, I could think of better things to do.

Chillin

[Paulajayne]

MMMMMMnnnn

Shopping - Said in a Homer type voice.