Hi, new here from Italy

[NoNickName]

Cheers, everybody. I'm an application and service specialist for Montair.it, small italian company building chillers, close control unit and geothermal heat pumps.

Been in the business for almost a decade, now facing the new regulations which will ban all F refrigerants from Europe, while trying to implement new technologies to maximise energy efficiency.

See you around.

[chillin out]

Welcome to the board hope you can teach this lot something...LOL

Chillin

[Renato RR]

So how is in Milano?I went to Milano fair from 03.03. to 06.03. how can you bread there people there is no O2 in the air it is catrastofy.

Renato

[Argus]

.................facing the new regulations which will ban all F refrigerants from Europe, while trying to implement new technologies to maximise energy efficiency.

See you around.

Nice to see you here and I can put you out of your misery; there are no plans to ban F gases in Europe in fixed plant, other than the applications in Annex 2. of the new Regs.

Mobile AC (MACs) face a reduction and ban, specifically of R134a, it's in a separate piece of legislation, it is true, but not fixed equipment.

Austria and Denmark work to their own rules that they have already and will continue with.

The Regulation faces a 3rd reading vote soon. You can read the latest unofficial version of the conciliation text here so that you'll know what's in it.

http://www.fluorocarbons.org/documen...0189A(COD).pdf


The promotion of alternative refrigerants has alway been part of it, but the reasoning behind the F Gas regulations is to reduce emissions, not to ban the use as a refrigerant.

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Toyota K engine specifications

[NoNickName]

I don't have permission to read the document (error 403). It seems you are right at first reading, but probably the regulation will be extended to ALL F-refrigerant except R152a also for fixed plants, in view of the GWP reduction required by the Kyoto protocol within 2010, not just MAC.

Let's see. I have the conciliation documents of the EU council and I must admit it is not very enlighting.

[Argus]

I don't have permission to read the document (error 403). It seems you are right at first reading, but probably the regulation will be extended to ALL F-refrigerant except R152a also for fixed plants, in view of the GWP reduction required by the Kyoto protocol within 2010, not just MAC.

Let's see. I have the conciliation documents of the EU council and I must admit it is not very enlighting.

The EU Parliament tried to get bans on fixed equipment use imposed before the 2nd reading vote last October. They were rejected by the Parliamentary vote.
The council opinion that followed also disagreed with some of the amendments agreed in the Parliament.
The rules then state that the matter has to go to the Conciliation Committee for a compromise. This happened in early February.

The document you are looking for is the unofficial (awaiting lawyers translators approval) joint agreed text. From this point on it cannot be changed.
When approved by the lawyers it will go back to the respective legislators:
Parliament must vote by a simple majority, the Council votes by qualified majority.
This has to happen within 6 weeks, (extendable by agreement 8 weeks).

The conciliation joint agreed text is available in draft form on EFCTCs web site. I don?t know why you can?t access it. Try this alternative route:
Go to:
http://www.fluorocarbons.org/
Then in the right hand box at the foot of the screen in ?specific info?, click ?General Library.
Go to the foot of the page, to ?Climate Change? and click:
?Regulation of the European Parliament and of the Council on certain fluorinated greenhouse gases 2003/0189A (COD).?

You should get the document you want. You will see that there are no bans on use in fixed systems at this time. Future changes are in the future and will need a revision of the Regulation and regulatory impact assessments before they are implemented.
That doesn't happen overnight.
I'm not saying it can't happen... but it won't be immediate.


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Pontiac Assembly

[NoNickName]

Thanks, Argus. I'll be watching carefully any progress.