Fujitsu AOT54LJBYL compressor problem

[misha10]

Hi,
I have a fujitsu AOT54LJBYL. it says the compressor cannot operate,(error code 1a, and 14 blinks/flashes on the outdoor unit).
is there any easy way to check if it is the board or the compressor. I called for technician, he said fujitsu told him to replace both (inverter board and compressor) which is going to cost me a mint.

I can hear that the compressor trying to start but no luck, just shuts down the whole unit with the error code mentioned above.

The compressor is a 3 phase, I did a ohm test using just my normal multimeter and it seemed ok . not sure if I can use a normal multimeter to test the winding on a 3 phase compressor. I read somewhere that you need a special ohm meter test to do that.?

is there a way to test if the board if it the board or the compressor itself?

many thanks in advance,
regards
Misha10

[marc5180]

That would depend on your electrical competence but you need to check for a balanced voltage from the inverter that supplies the power to the compressor.
This can be done by using an inverter checker or a voltmeter but with the high voltages that are involved I personally would leave it to a professional because it can be deadly.

[misha10]

That would depend on your electrical competence but you need to check for a balanced voltage from the inverter that supplies the power to the compressor.
This can be done by using an inverter checker or a voltmeter but with the high voltages that are involved I personally would leave it to a professional because it can be deadly.

many thanks Marc, will do.
regards
M

[bigor_2]

Ferr1a.pngerror compressor start up.pngFor handmade-diagnosis suggest Trouble Shooting #17 and #20

[misha10]

Hi bigor_2,
any chance that I can get a copy of the service manual/troubleshooting that you have for my unit. I found the book service manual for 18R/24r/36r which contains similar information, but would like a copy for 54L, if you dont mind.

I have replaced the board now, it is coming up with error 17 which indicates an ipm error? not sure how to test now now?

many thanks for replying
regards
Misha10

[Tayters]

Evenin'

Manual is 63MB, bit big to send and to be honest not much help either. Here's the page for the code.

E17.pdf

For inverter testing:http://www.refrigeration-engineer.co...verter+testing

For this model watch out for the metal body fan motors. Yeah, said it before...Search the forum, here's a start: http://www.refrigeration-engineer.co...ighlight=ljbyl

In your case possibly the compressor or a fan motor is seized but needs more checking to confirm.

You don't need a special meter to test the winding resistance but you'll need a megger to test the windings to earth. Normally a fault here result in a comms error and blown fuses and PCB's.

Good luck!
Andy.

[bigor_2]

Below link to Service Instruction for duct type units from 18 to 54
https://www.mediafire.com/?0fvmh7qar70ro43

[nike123]

Compressor is of DC inverter type and cannot be checked otherwise than measuring its insulation resistance with Mega-ohmmeter and comparing all 3 windings resistance with Wheatstone bridge mil-ohmmeter.
Same goes for fan motors (BLDC type).

[nike123]

Compressor is of DC inverter type and cannot be checked otherwise than measuring its insulation resistance with Mega-ohmmeter and comparing all 3 windings resistance with Wheatstone bridge mil-ohmmeter.
Same goes for fan motors (BLDC type).

Or:
http://www.refrigeration-engineer.co...p/t-20440.html

[misha10]

Below link to Service Instruction for duct type units from 18 to 54
https://www.mediafire.com/?0fvmh7qar70ro43

hi,

the link deosnt work, is there another location for the service manual.

many thanks
Misha

[misha10]

Evenin'

Manual is 63MB, bit big to send and to be honest not much help either. Here's the page for the code.

E17.pdf

For inverter testing:http://www.refrigeration-engineer.co...verter+testing

For this model watch out for the metal body fan motors. Yeah, said it before...Search the forum, here's a start: http://www.refrigeration-engineer.co...ighlight=ljbyl

In your case possibly the compressor or a fan motor is seized but needs more checking to confirm.

You don't need a special meter to test the winding resistance but you'll need a megger to test the windings to earth. Normally a fault here result in a comms error and blown fuses and PCB's.

Good luck!
Andy.

Thank you Andy, i found your inverter testing guide last night, very useful. I did the ohms test and voltage test using my multimeter . all tested ok. the top fan comes on, the second fan never comes on, not sure if this is due to the fact that the compressor hasnt kicked in or not, I can hear that the compressor is trying to kick in but no luck. didnt do winding to earth test as I dont have a megger just a normal multimeter.

I changed the board, trying to eliminate that, it still didnt work, comes up with error code 17 and outdoor flashes 12 times, which indicates an IPM error. Hence I was seeking just for the service or troubleshooting section of the manual.

I put the old board back, outdoor unit flashes 14 times. with a new board, unit flashes 12 times. all the fuses are ok and no sign of any burnt out board.

I think the compressor on the unit is gone. I can manually turn the bottom fan on the unit by hand with easy.

thanks for helping everyone.
regards
Misha

[bigor_2]

new link http://www.mediafire.com/view/kkyobi8oy9ft9xf/SI%2018_54LJBL(2).pdf
PCB with E17 is new or used?
Compare partN (such K04AW-****HUE-C1) on both PCB.

[Tayters]

Thank you Andy, i found your inverter testing guide last night, very useful. I did the ohms test and voltage test using my multimeter . all tested ok. the top fan comes on, the second fan never comes on, not sure if this is due to the fact that the compressor hasnt kicked in or not, I can hear that the compressor is trying to kick in but no luck. didnt do winding to earth test as I dont have a megger just a normal multimeter.

I changed the board, trying to eliminate that, it still didnt work, comes up with error code 17 and outdoor flashes 12 times, which indicates an IPM error. Hence I was seeking just for the service or troubleshooting section of the manual.

I put the old board back, outdoor unit flashes 14 times. with a new board, unit flashes 12 times. all the fuses are ok and no sign of any burnt out board.

I think the compressor on the unit is gone. I can manually turn the bottom fan on the unit by hand with easy.

thanks for helping everyone.
regards
Misha

To prove the fan, power the mains off for a few minutes, swap the fan motorplugs round on the PCB and restart the system.
Make sure system has been powered down or the high DC voltage to the fan motor will spark across the plug when you unplug damaging PCB and fan.
Above all,remember about the metal body motors being duff.
Worth searching the forum for using diode function to test the motor PCB.

Cheers,
Andy.

[bigor_2]

for compressor check assemble equivalent circuit from three filament lamps (60-100 watts).

[misha10]

new link http://www.mediafire.com/view/kkyobi8oy9ft9xf/SI%2018_54LJBL(2).pdf
PCB with E17 is new or used?
Compare partN (such K04AW-****HUE-C1) on both PCB.

HI bigor_2,
downloading the file now many thanks.

PCB with E17 is with a new board. This board was landed to me by someone who also had the same model, he couldnt get the unit going so he bought a whole new daiken unit instead. His technician couldnt determine the problem suggest to him to buy a whole new unit. He did use the board in his system for about 20 min, but since they couldnt get it going so he pulled out the board. I was going to buy the board if it worked on my unit.

The partN on the two boards are different:
the new one is K08bh-****
the old one is K04aw-******

regards
Misha

[misha10]

To prove the fan, power the mains off for a few minutes, swap the fan motorplugs round on the PCB and restart the system.
Make sure system has been powered down or the high DC voltage to the fan motor will spark across the plug when you unplug damaging PCB and fan.
Above all,remember about the metal body motors being duff.
Worth searching the forum for using diode function to test the motor PCB.

Cheers,
Andy.

Thanks Andy for the suggestion.

If it was the bottom fan, wouldnt it at least try to make a noise when it tries to start it?

I can only hear the noise from the compressor that it is trying to start no where else.

will try to swap the plugs around for the two fan and see if the second fan does kick in at least.

regards
Misha

[bigor_2]

write complete partN for both PCB

[misha10]

for compressor check assemble equivalent circuit from three filament lamps (60-100 watts).

Hi Bigor_2

many thanks, will try to get someone to show me how to do this with 3 -100watts lamps.

best regards
Misha

[misha10]

write complete partN for both PCB

Hi bigor_2
I gave the new board back. but this is what I wrote down

new board:
K08BH- cant read the rest
9708016023
edition. 01

old board:
K04AW-0501HUE-C1 K60602 R
9705658035
edition.05
regards
misha

[bigor_2]

Сonnect three lamps at star (Y).

[misha10]

[QUOTE=misha10;290382]


Hi bigor_2
got it. I got the numbers from the photos:

new board:
K08BH-K08BH-0804HUE-CI
K38328 R
9708016023
edition. 01

old board:
K04AW-0501HUE-C1 K60602 R
9705658035
edition.05
regards
misha

[bigor_2]

Tayters's idea in the following
one of the motors may be faulty (inside short circuit).
for check it disconnect one of motors.
If no effect disconnect another motor.
before connections the power switch off for 10 minutes.

[misha10]

will the faulty of a fan motor make the compressor to stop working?
inorder for the compressor to work, does the second fan need to be working at all?

[misha10]

one more thing that I would like to add is that, when I changed to the new board, I got the error 17 on the control panel, the outdoor unit flashes 12 times, but I didnt hear the compressor making any noise. Its like it got that error when it goes and tries to start the compressor but never got the compressor to start. no noise at all. The bottom fan never came on either.

with the old board, I can hear that the compressor is trying to kick in making a noise but the bottom fan never came on either, then error 1A comes on and unit flashes 14 times.

best regards
Michael

[bigor_2]

Sorry I did not quite understand.
My experience is that if the motor is faulty compressor is not running.
For Tayters's idea make two situation
1. Power switch off. Disconnect bottom fan motor. Power switch on. Start system.
2. Power switch off. Disconnect upper fan motor and connect bottom fan motor. Power switch on. Start system.

[bigor_2]

Imho "new" PCB is defective with IPM error.

[Tayters]

[QUOTE=misha10;290385]

Hi bigor_2
got it. I got the numbers from the photos:

new board:
K08BH-K08BH-0804HUE-CI
K38328 R
9708016023
edition. 01

old board:
K04AW-0501HUE-C1 K60602 R
9705658035
edition.05
regards
misha

Newer PCB is correct substitue for original.
K08BH-0804HUE-C1 is listed as P/N 9708013053 (yep, number on PCB is different from number you order just to make it easy...) and this number is one of the superseded part numbers from the original.

Swapping the fan motor plugs over is to purely see if the PCB is capable of driving the fans. Remember these fan motors have a PCB inside them so diagnosing them isn't as straight forward as a normal motor.

If you fancy a go with a meter to test the internal PCB as best you can then check here and pay respects to Mr Ozairman: http://www.refrigeration-engineer.co...ht=#post283691

Don't forget to leave unit powered off for a few minutes before unplugging them!

[misha10]

[QUOTE=Tayters;290410]

Newer PCB is correct substitue for original.
K08BH-0804HUE-C1 is listed as P/N 9708013053 (yep, number on PCB is different from number you order just to make it easy...) and this number is one of the superseded part numbers from the original.

Swapping the fan motor plugs over is to purely see if the PCB is capable of driving the fans. Remember these fan motors have a PCB inside them so diagnosing them isn't as straight forward as a normal motor.

If you fancy a go with a meter to test the internal PCB as best you can then check here and pay respects to Mr Ozairman: http://www.refrigeration-engineer.co...ht=#post283691

Don't forget to leave unit powered off for a few minutes before unplugging them!

thanks you Andy and bigor_2,

I did printout Mr ozairman's instruction yesterday from your previous post. thank you.

I will try the diode test on the fan motor first, then I will swapped the fan plugs around and see if the second fan will start up.

best regards
Misha

[bigor_2]

Misha,
This thread http://www.refrigeration-engineer.co...ht=#post283691 about communication error.
In your case it's compressor or IPM.
Remember about three lamps
HNY!

[misha10]

hi bigor_2/Andy,

i swapped swopped the fan plug, the bottom fan came on straight away. compressor made the same noise. so it is definitely the compressor now.

got quoted $2000 just to put a new compressor in.

thanks
Misha

[misha10]

BTW, HNY bigor_2 /Andy.

just a silly question here. I read somewhere that if the compressor seems to be seized, you just have to hit it certain spot it will start?

how true is this, the compressor is Mitsubishi electric ANB33FCMMT. anyone worked on one of these before.

Looks like I have look at replacing the whole system or just repairing the compressor the cost is almost the same.

cheers
Misha

[nike123]

Remember about three lamps
HNY!

I don't think that 3 lamp test will work on DC inverter system, since DC inverter need information from compressor about position of rotor from one (inactive) winding to correctly drive compressor with other two (active) windings. Therefore, without that feedback, control circuit will stop system and show error code.

That test is OK for AC inverters since they do not provide any feedback except current consumption.



I personally never tried that test at DC system. With IPM error, I usually advise customer to change whole outdoor unit.

[nike123]

just a silly question here. I read somewhere that if the compressor seems to be seized, you just have to hit it certain spot it will start?

Once seized, it will quickly seize again!

[bigor_2]

just a silly question here. I read somewhere that if the compressor seems to be seized, you just have to hit it certain spot it will start?

It's possible for on/off compressor but not for inverter.

how true is this, the compressor is Mitsubishi electric ANB33FCMMT. anyone worked on one of these before.

Replacement only.

Looks like I have look at replacing the whole system or just repairing the compressor the cost is almost the same.

Replacing the whole system or outdoor.

[misha10]

It's possible for on/off compressor but not for inverter.


Replacement only.


Replacing the whole system or outdoor.

Replacing the whole system. appraently fujitsu doesnt sell just the outdoor unit itself. Unless I can find someone who is willing to replace my compressor. Two techinicians have said to replace the whole system so far.

regards
Misha

[misha10]

I don't think that 3 lamp test will work on DC inverter system, since DC inverter need information from compressor about position of rotor from one (inactive) winding to correctly drive compressor with other two (active) windings. Therefore, without that feedback, control circuit will stop system and show error code.

That test is OK for AC inverters since they do not provide any feedback except current consumption.



I personally never tried that test at DC system. With IPM error, I usually advise customer to change whole outdoor unit.

thank you very much for your valuable input Nike123.

regards
m