100 Ton Chiller Charging / Oil Level Questions After Compressor Replacements for PROS

[Rickochet]

We replaced four Carlyle 06E compressors on a 100 ton York chiller. The four compressors are connected in parallel with cross-over tubes to connect to each oil level sight port. We filled the compressors with a combined 10 gallons of oil which brought the oil level to the correct level which is about 1/4" below the center-line of the sight glass, one on each end compressor. All is well at this point.

After evacuating the system to 500 microns, and leak checking, the oil level was still spot on. Today, after beginning to charge with 213 lbs. of R-22, we noticed the oil level had gone up above the sight glass. The system was charged without starting the compressors, using very warm R-22 cylinders. The R-22 was charged through the discharge and suction ports with the king valves in the mid position.

We don't have a lot of experience on chillers of this size and I have not seen this before. Is this a normal condition? Is this going to cause a flooding condition when the compressors are started? Will the oil level drop once the R-22 is drawn into the system when it starts? Any wisdom on this quandary will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

[Brian_UK]

Have you the crankcase heaters switched on?

[Rickochet]

Crankcase heaters are not on yet. They will be next week when we get ready to power up.

[NH3LVR]

You have flooded the compressors with R22.
Having the crankcase heaters on will help.
You may end up needing a little help with an experienced person before you start the machine.

[Rickochet]

The experience is what is hard to come by around here. Should we recover the refrigerant from the compressors and then add it after were are running?

[Rickochet]

I am looking to my experienced chiller techs here for help.

[passandscore]

If you are not in a rush to start-up you can leave the crankcase heaters on and they will remove the liquid over time.

[Grizzly]

Just to clarify the good advice already given.
By charging via the suction port you have added liquid refrigerant to the Suction / crankcase of the compressors.
As all three of my fellow forum members have tried to tell you this!
Basically you need to boil off any liquid BEFORE trying to run ANY of the compressors.
Heat is required!
Power up the crankcase heaters and wait!
Or apply some heat externally (a space heater blowing warm air across the comps is a good method.
You do not say what York model you are dealing with?
Most will not run until the oil temp is 10C (don't know what the Fahrenheit equivalent is?) above the ambient.
To stop exactly the scenario you have explained.
If you run a recip with liquid refrigerant present, you can cause a huge smash up internally.
If a running comp Hydraulically locks things can get very messy.
Also there are loads of trained York Engineers in your country?
Maybe you want advise for free?
Grizzly

[chemi-cool]

If the oil quantity equals to the manufacturer istructions, than you have nothing to worry about.
There could be some oil trapped in other places in the chiller.

If the oil level do not go above the sight glass that you are ok, the worst is that you will have to remove some of the oil.

[Gibbo]

Were the chilled water pumps running when you charged and did you charge as a vapour or liquid.

[Rickochet]

The water pumps were not running. It was charged with liquid.

[Grizzly]

So there was no heat load as such.
And liquid was charged direct into the suction line!
A major No No, where chillers are concerned.
Basically you need to get rid of the liquid.
At least you admit your mistake/ lack of experience where the larger chiller is concerned.
No real damage has been done- Hopefully!
Because charging without regard to system pressure temps, can cause permanent damage to the evap tubes.
Hopefully the water side was flooded enough to stop ice crystals to form around the tubes.
But the thermal shock of having high pressure /Temp. R22 flooding through the pipes is not a good scenario.
Many have seriously damaged a chiller by not charging in the correct manner.
You may have some oil return to the comp from the evaps?
As you say you have changed all 4 comps! Unusual?
What is the history?
Grizzly

[Rickochet]

This was half of a large 200 ton unit. Half of the unit (four more compressors) are still in operation. The four compressors that were replaced was due to an improper flushing and filtering from one compressor that failed and contaminated the others. That operation was completed by a large reputable company that was supposed to be the chiller wizards in this area.

So with the other four compressors still running to operate the chilling process, the thought was that it would maintain the unit without damage to the evaporator tubes. This has been a learning experience, no doubt. The more I read the more experience I get. Your help is certainly treasured!

[Gibbo]

You better pray that you haven't caused any problems with your cooler tubes by charging liquid straight into a vacuum with your water pumps off or you may have even more more to worry about.

Gibbo

[RusBuka]

https://plus.google.com/photos?gpsrc...57158510196974

[Rickochet]

https://plus.google.com/photos?gpsrc...57158510196974

Rusbuka--- there was no picture at that site.