City-Multi PUHY-P650YGM-A+PEFY-P20 (28 units) 6607+1302 codes

[Kliimaseade]

Good evening everyone,

I have just started with Mitsubishi Electric in Estonia. This is my first problem with City-Multi.
There is a one outdoor unit PUHY-P650YGM-A and 28 indoor units PEFY-P20.

Here is the problem:
- only 1 indoor unit (on the 3rd floor of the building) is cooling, but it does not stop at all (maybe indoor unit PCB is defected) - have to stop it manually. The other 27 units on three floors are not cooling at all. Indoor unit LEV are all contolled and working (if I give them signal via Maintenance tool). 3 units give 1302 error code and cannot delete it. 3 units give 6607 code.
- outdoor unit LEV1 is not working, TH5-TH7 temperature difference is -2...5 degrees only, the LEV1 does not get any signal from main board. Main board is replaced, but the result is still the same.
So if my undestanding is right, the evaporating temperature is not correct, but why 1 unit is cooling properly?
How is it possible to measure the impulse from main board?

Has anyone had a similar problem or maybe can help me with this problem?

[The Viking]

Hmmm,
To start with I would power everything down for 15 minutes, then turn the indoor units back on followed by the BC boxes and lastly the outdoor unit.
After the system rebooted itself, check that the outdoor unit communicates with all the indoor units and then see what will run.

Happy hunting!

[JoeAT50A]

Sometime 6607 errors are pretty tricky, most probably due to noises of Mnet transmission cables.
Did you use shielded cable? Aluminium foil or braid type?
Please check and tighten again for better contact.
Wire size should be at least 1.25mm2 and one way should not more than 200m.

Turn off the power source of the outdoor unit for 5 to 10 minutes and turn it on again.
or
Outdoor unit SW2-2 on power reset to make it fresh start.

1302 High pressure may be false alarm related to 6607 for some cases.

Anyway try all these first and let us know.

Hope this help.

[Kliimaseade]

Thank you for the answers, Sirs.

I tried this one, but the codes are still on. The shielded cable is used. Cable size is 1,25mm². Do you think that these error codes for indoor units (6pcs) could affect the whole system work?
I think if the other units do not give any error codes, they should work properly.

I will attach some photos of the outdoor unit piping during the operating time. In my opinion the problem here with the LEV1. But I cannot measure the impulse the main board gives it to the coil. If I control the impulse via outside unit main board, it shows that there is no impulse fo LEV1.

[Kliimaseade]

The refrigerant quantity is checked. Sorry, I forgot to write it before.

[moondawn]

hi, the 6 units that show 6607 can you confirm 30v dc at the mnet of each indoor. also worth checking is the outdoor board im pretty sure there is a jumper on the board which may require moving. cant remember exxactly what it does but something along the lines of if two or more condensors are linked via a daisy chain to a centralised controller. (just a thought)

cheers

[JoeAT50A]

6607 is just communication breakdown between OD and IDs. OD always initialize all the connected IDs.
For whatever reason OD can't find the registered IDs (now 6 units) and prompt 6607 no acknowledge error.

1302 is system refrigeration related High Pressure Trouble.

Please try to focus andsolve one by one. As I told you 6607 is quite tricky if relate to noises. Of course some cases are straight forward and jut relate to power supply.

If possible you can post your maintenance tool data (Operation data + Connection info) here, so that we could able to visualize your system.

[Kliimaseade]

Good morning everyone,

Thank you for your help.

JoeAT50A
The files are attached.
What do you mean by Connection info?

[AbsoluteWDJ]

Have you checked the refrigerant yourself. Measured pipe work length, size and carried out additional charge calculation. With high pressure faults and frosted suction pipe in cooling on heat pump then you may have to much, or fault indoor expansion valves. Plus not forgetting the 6607 errors. I would start by looking at having the system communicating correctly. Is the M-net cable over 200 metres, if so, you might need a booster pack. Then once you've addressed this error, then you'd begin to look at pressure, temperature and flow of refrigerant. Good Luck!

[Kliimaseade]

The M-Net cable has a booster.

I will check the pressure myself. But it will take some time. I will be back after checking the refrigerant volume.
But do not you think that could be a problem with LEV1? I had a suggestion that could be a problem with it.

Thank you very much!

[AbsoluteWDJ]

The M-Net cable has a booster.

I will check the pressure myself. But it will take some time. I will be back after checking the refrigerant volume.
But do not you think that could be a problem with LEV1? I had a suggestion that could be a problem with it.

Thank you very much!

LEV 1 controls the sub cooler on the outdoor unit. Can't personally see this as the problem.

[JoeAT50A]

Good morning everyone,

Thank you for your help.

JoeAT50A
The files are attached.
What do you mean by Connection info?

Your attached is not maintenance tool data at all, given zip consist of 1.gds and 2.gds.
I think you attach wrong file.

Connecting information ("Connect Infor") tag from maintenance tool. You can't save but screen capture.
Information is something like this ...see attached.
Connect Infor.jpg

[Kliimaseade]

JoeAT50A

What file extension should be for Maintenance tool data files? I think I did everything wrong. During the unit's work monitoring the program saved this 2 files.

I will attache 2 files I made a print screen during the process, maybe it will help.

AbsoluteWDJ

I was told that outdoor unit LEV1 is not working, TH5-TH7 temperature difference is -2...5 degrees only, but should be minimum 15 degrees. As a result there is a wrong evaporation temperature.

[marc5180]

Do you have the operation data from the main monitoring page? It makes it easier to read rather than listing the info?
Please include the page that shows all the outdoor sensors and valve positions and indoor sensors and valve positions..
Without looking at the monitoring tool data, I wonder if its the 4 way rv that could be causing the issue?

[marc5180]

Just trying to make sense of the limited data give, something seems to be stopping the compressor from ramping up (although compressor speed also isn't shown) to achieve target evaporation temperature.

What's the compressor discharge temperature reading?

[AbsoluteWDJ]

JoeAT50A

What file extension should be for Maintenance tool data files? I think I did everything wrong. During the unit's work monitoring the program saved this 2 files.

I will attache 2 files I made a print screen during the process, maybe it will help.

AbsoluteWDJ

I was told that outdoor unit LEV1 is not working, TH5-TH7 temperature difference is -2...5 degrees only, but should be minimum 15 degrees. As a result there is a wrong evaporation temperature.

Looking at the piping diagram you should have sub cooled liquid in cooling mode so yeah above 15 degrees. Have you carried out any checks on the expansion valve head for LEV 1. Might be worth replacing this. Might be stuck open.

[Reffnut]

Ive had issues with city multis like this before! Found evaporator internal expansion valve stuck open on the only working unit!

[FreezerGeezer]

The only one of these I've worked on recently was an issue with corroded boards & terminals on the O/D unit. I was told (iirc) that to check the comm's voltages you must use a true RMS volt meter or you won't get correct comm's voltage readings.
Anyway, in our case replacement of the corroded cards (both main & 1 fan control iirc) sorted the fault. I sprayed the new cards with PCB sealant before fitting, & for what it may be worth (probably too late) I also sprayed the cards & terminals that I didn't replace.

[JoeAT50A]

Looking at the piping diagram you should have sub cooled liquid in cooling mode so yeah above 15 degrees. Have you carried out any checks on the expansion valve head for LEV 1. Might be worth replacing this. Might be stuck open.

TH5=TH8=TH7 >> Likelihood is LEV1 not working (however LEV1 is not easy and tedious task involved)
Try change the coil portion instead of valve body.

Your outdoor temperature 21C is very tricky to run either cooling and heating.

Tc is not bad, but TH5 and TH7 is pretty high. That's why SCo and SCc value are too low and wrong signal like shortage of gas. Actually we need to see more data like TH11 and TH12, 63HS and also indoor units'.

You can use EXPORT to transfer the maintenance tool file (zip) and do not try to unzip. Just give us the exported zip file. We can use IMPORT to view it.

[Kliimaseade]

Thank You very much for your help, gentlemen!

First of all I will check the refrigerant volume in the system and replace the LEV1 - I have already tried to replace the LIV1 coil - it did not help.

If we look at Vdc (OC51) it is ca 530. It is much more higher than 425, so maybe there could be a problem with inverter PCB also?

Unfortunately the maintenance tool saved monitoring log as 1.gds and 2.gds. As I understand it is not a correct file extension for this kind of files. When I will be at the place during this week I will try to save the log once again (TH11 and TH12, 63HS + indoor units). Can You tell me what is the correct file extension for the maintenance tool, please?

[JoeAT50A]

You only can export as ZIP file (automatically) as I said earlier. Original extension is either MTDZ or MTDX.

[Kliimaseade]

Good morning, gentlemen.

Well, the next works were done, but result is still the same:
- LEV1 replaced
- LEV1 coil replaced
- Main board replaced
- Inverter board replaced
- Refrigerant volume controlled.

There were no error after cards replacement for a while. Then appeared 4355 error for a while, but then was cleared and did not appeared again.

But I found some more strange things: the unit does not work with 2 compressors even if there is a demand. When one compressor works, the unit switches on the second compressor and then quickly turn it off. Both compressors are working properly, but only when they work separately. Compressors amps are 7,8A-8,0A.

The refrigerant parameters after 45 minutes working:

HP - 24,8 bars
LP - 7,5 bars
VDC - 538 (again too high?!)
IDC - 15,6
Tc - 42,3
Te - 1,5
compressor frequency - 39 hZ
AK1 - 11
IV - 11,7
IW - 11,8
PF - 133
LEV1 - 66
TH5=TH7=40,1-40,3
TH8 - 33,5
TH1/TH11 - 71,6
TH12 - 31,6
THHS1 - 39,7
THHS5 - 27,8

Right now I have the Maintenence tool files with right extension, but I cannot attach it (not allowed more than 100 kB)

[RusBuka]

Make zip file and put in Filefactory.com

на любой файлообменник залей.

[marc5180]

Can you send it over to my email and then I'll look at it and then upload it, if you are struggling

[marc5180]

What mode was the system running in when you took the readings? The readings you have given only show half of the picture, more information is needed.

When you say the 2nd unit won't run, was this after the mains power had been turned back on?
The system will run in initialisation mode for up to two hours whilst it carrys out its own system checks including stopping and starting compressors once the main power has been turned off.

Compressor frequency 39hz so it's not even half way ramped up. Maximum frequency on cooling for a size 650 is 112hz. Tc and Te have been achieved and that's why it isn't ramping up any further.

LEV1 is at 66 pulses and so is basically shut, this can be seen by looking at the sub cooler circuit which is doing nothing, hardly any heat exchange is taking place.....so what controls LEV1?

The amount of superheat is controlled based on the bypass outlet temperature (TH8).
The opening of the valve is based on the Subcooling coil outlet/inlet temperature (Th5, TH7) high pressure sensor and discharge temperature (TH12)

Have you checked all of these sensors out and also verified the HP & LP readings against a set of gauges to confirm the digital readings aren't reading wrong?

[JoeAT50A]

Please look into SV5b and SV5c, temperature of bypassed line to accumulator is low and that wont make your second compressor to kick in.

[Kliimaseade]

Thank You very much for your help, gentlemen.
Here are the links for the files:

http://www.filefactory.com/file/55mc...918_164942.zip
http://www.filefactory.com/file/6q89...rensburg_3_zip
http://www.filefactory.com/file/1gz1...g290820132.zip

The latest files is 20130918 - the readings after spare parts replacement.

The system works in cooling mode only.
About 2nd compressor - this thing appeared after the unit was switched off. So it should be initialization mode.

[marc5180]

I cant read that, it keeps saying import failed.
Joe are you having any luck?

[JoeAT50A]

No luck for me at all.
I can't able to download from filefactory. I am having security issues I think.

[marc5180]

Can you take a screen shot of the omitting page because we are unable to read the data in the zip file that you have uploaded for some reason.

[Kliimaseade]

I will upload the other log. This time the maintenance tool file should be OK. Also CSV file for of this log is uploaded But it was made before Lev1 and inverter pcb exchange.

http://www.filefactory.com/file/6zwa...290820132.MTDZ
http://www.filefactory.com/file/3i2g...g290820132.CSV

Hope You can open these files!

[RusBuka]

Damn i cant download too(((
Can you try to do it in your own fileholder?
like
http://rghost.net/

[Kliimaseade]

Here the linkes from rghost:

http://rghost.ru/48974693
http://rghost.ru/48974698

[marc5180]

Here the linkes from rghost:

http://rghost.ru/48974693
http://rghost.ru/48974698

I finally managed to view one log but Im not sure wether it was before or after you changed the LEV1 head so......

Firstly The LEV 1 isn't doing its job, this can be seen by the sub cooler circuit which is doing absolutely nothing.

A few basic things to check first off would be;

1)Driers or strainers on the inlet of the LEV1 are they clear?
2) Verify sensors TH8, TH5, TH7 (resistance check)
3) Attach a set of gauges to the low and high side and verify the HP & LP readings are the same as the readings on the lee display or laptop
4) unwind the LEV1 head slowly without fully disconnecting it and then do you get flow through the valve (you should do)

Next check all three of the 4way reversing valves (21s4a 21s4b and 21s4c) to be sure they aren't stuck in the wrong or even mid position.

Then lastly I would look at indoor unit number 6.
I'm wondering if the indoor LEV is stuck open making a high to low bypass, this can be seen by the very low coil temps and very low superheat, maybe the LEV isn't connected.

Try that then come back to us, with your results.

[marc5180]

Any update on this ?

[RusBuka]

Buy niobium magnet and open EEV by hands on work, and look at probes at work.
Or buy that p\n T2WEA5651

[Kliimaseade]

Good evening everyone.

Sorry for the late answer. I got system to work.
After Inverter and Main PCB replacement I got rid of error codes. LEV1 with LEV coil were also replaced.
So the problem was very easy to eliminate.
The two things that were done after work I wrote above are:

Indoor units LEVs resetting and cleaning of the indoor units heat exchangers. After resetting the indoor unit LEVs some units started operating properly. Tthere were 6 units with dirty heat exchangers. After cleaning these units started operating properly also.

Thank You very much for your help and advices!

[marc5180]

Good evening everyone.

Sorry for the late answer. I got system to work.
After Inverter and Main PCB replacement I got rid of error codes. LEV1 with LEV coil were also replaced.
So the problem was very easy to eliminate.
The two things that were done after work I wrote above are:

Indoor units LEVs resetting and cleaning of the indoor units heat exchangers. After resetting the indoor unit LEVs some units started operating properly. Tthere were 6 units with dirty heat exchangers. After cleaning these units started operating properly also.

Thank You very much for your help and advices!

Thanks for the update, glad you got it sorted

[nigne2011]

hi,

6607

Communication error - No ACK return the MNET cannot communicate with the address given, check for 30VDC at TB5 on that address possible address board error.

1302

High pressure detection, blocked condenser, condenser fans not operating, fuse blown on main pcb ym,ymf,ymf/b, pressure sensor faulty.

http://airconditioningfaultcodes.blo...302-error.html