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  1. #1
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    Mr Mad and Big Pony Please explain






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    Re: Mr Mad and Big Pony Please explain

    Being it is Saturday night,
    I will go with the Great Paul Daniels wise words.

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    Re: Mr Mad and Big Pony Please explain

    "Now that is what i call magic"

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    Re: Mr Mad and Big Pony Please explain

    Hi RJS,

    I've seen this on Bitzer vertical receivers before - I think the liquid inlet at the top (which enters directly above the sight glasses) runs down on the inside of the vessel & trickles about inside the glass.

    Things that could be done with the receiver design would be to reposition the liquid inlet away from the glasses, use a stem into the vessel in the current position, fill the receiver from the bottom etc.

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    Re: Mr Mad and Big Pony Please explain

    Quote Originally Posted by mad fridgie View Post
    "Now that is what i call magic"
    Thought you might like that one....

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    Re: Mr Mad and Big Pony Please explain

    Quote Originally Posted by HVACRsaurus View Post
    Hi RJS,

    I've seen this on Bitzer vertical receivers before - I think the liquid inlet at the top (which enters directly above the sight glasses) runs down on the inside of the vessel & trickles about inside the glass.

    Things that could be done with the receiver design would be to reposition the liquid inlet away from the glasses, use a stem into the vessel in the current position, fill the receiver from the bottom etc.
    Interesting....

    The posting is more of a personal discussion between Mr Mad and Big pony though.
    Its regarding the state of the refrigerant in a receiver.

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    Re: Mr Mad and Big Pony Please explain

    if its a personal discussion private message him- as opposed to posting it for everyone to see

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    Re: Mr Mad and Big Pony Please explain

    Quote Originally Posted by rjsinoz View Post
    Interesting....

    The posting is more of a personal discussion between Mr Mad and Big pony though.
    Its regarding the state of the refrigerant in a receiver.
    What?.. Personal discussion? Are you serious? HVACRsaurus took the time to answer your question and this is is the gratitude you show.
    To the optimist, the glass is half full. To the pessimist, the glass is half empty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeref View Post
    What?.. Personal discussion? Are you serious? HVACRsaurus took the time to answer your question and this is is the gratitude you show.
    The problem is what he wrote big fella. i don't care how it got there that's irrelevant. But i was trying to be nice about it without pointing out that is a stupid response as the more interesting question would be how is it possible?
    suppose its a bit late now.
    the question goes back to my first post and if he had read that he would no im looking for a more precise answer. Not his fault image sure he would give a more precise answer had he of read it...
    Just FYI the video supports my argument that its not a saturated vapour in the top of a receiver its a gaseous vapour present caused by evaporation thus allowing liquid to be maintained surrounded by a vapour.
    And i did address it to Mr Mad and Big pony didn't I????

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    Re: Mr Mad and Big Pony Please explain

    Its late, had a drink or 2
    But Ryan, i know your are trying, but an apology is required to HVACR, because he is right.
    I am to tired to going into the science, but here is practical experiment that proves the point.
    Get spoon, hold vertically, handle top, scoop bottom.
    gently pour water down the spoon handle. What do you see? on either side of the scoop.
    Now at a bit gum to the bottom of the spoon scoop, pour water again. what do you see?
    You will see the water pooling behind the gum, if it was glass spoon it would look like what you see in the receiver.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mad fridgie View Post
    Its late, had a drink or 2
    But Ryan, i know your are trying, but an apology is required to HVACR, because he is right.
    I am to tired to going into the science, but here is practical experiment that proves the point.
    Get spoon, hold vertically, handle top, scoop bottom.
    gently pour water down the spoon handle. What do you see? on either side of the scoop.
    Now at a bit gum to the bottom of the spoon scoop, pour water again. what do you see?
    You will see the water pooling behind the gum, if it was glass spoon it would look like what you see in the receiver.
    Is the said spoon and water in a dynamic system with changing mass flow rates, pressures and temperatures.
    Or is it a spoon with gum and water on it.
    (Couldn't help myself)
    I never say sorry unless im proved wrong.
    I mean no disrespect to him though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rjsinoz View Post

    Is the said spoon and water in a dynamic system with changing mass flow rates, pressures and temperatures.
    Or is it a spoon with gum and water on it.
    (Couldn't help myself)
    I never say sorry unless im proved wrong.
    I mean no disrespect to him though.
    On a serious note what would you say the state of the vapour is in surrounding that sub cool liquid is it a saturated vapour or is it gaseous vapour im thinking you didn't do that experiment with a 100 percent r h levels around you

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    Re: Mr Mad and Big Pony Please explain

    for the sake of f**k it will be all three in a running system, we gon through this to the death! you will have some super heated vapour in all due probability due to carry over if the valves are wide open on a load pull down due to the velocity of the refrigerant in the system, during idling you'll have more of a saturated strata then super heated, and for fun if all the valves kick in full suddenly for a bit of a second you'll have flash off so you'll have cooled saturated in the vessel from the pressure drop, then during a pump down you'll have plausibly a bit of super heated at first then all saturated. Thermal transfer happens from the receiver to ambient, if it where a pipe we'd call it a condenser! So all the same mechanisms apply to a static system as we'd see in a condenser, second the system turns on this all changes and goes to pot!

    We could fill a mile of paper all to say the same thing, you get a toss up of all three in a receiver in a running system

    How many systems have you built? hell I build em for fun when I have the time, you try and scrounge up some junk to play with make a system then see how it behaves, get the receiver, drill a 1/8th hole every ten or so mill and epoxy in a thermal couple, make sure the tip is at min 2mm inside the vessel, then plot a chart with all the data points, measure in going and out going fluid temp, and if you can acquire one a mass flow sensor.

    and it all will tell you what has been said over again and again.
    Now in Redvers Sask.

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    Re: Mr Mad and Big Pony Please explain

    j
    Quote Originally Posted by The MG Pony View Post
    for the sake of f**k it will be all three in a running system, we gon through this to the death! you will have some super heated vapour in all due probability due to carry over if the valves are wide open on a load pull down due to the velocity of the refrigerant in the system, during idling you'll have more of a saturated strata then super heated, and for fun if all the valves kick in full suddenly for a bit of a second you'll have flash off so you'll have cooled saturated in the vessel from the pressure drop, then during a pump down you'll have plausibly a bit of super heated at first then all saturated. Thermal transfer happens from the receiver to ambient, if it where a pipe we'd call it a condenser! So all the same mechanisms apply to a static system as we'd see in a condenser, second the system turns on this all changes and goes to pot!

    We could fill a mile of paper all to say the same thing, you get a toss up of all three in a receiver in a running system

    How many systems have you built? hell I build em for fun when I have the time, you try and scrounge up some junk to play with make a system then see how it behaves, get the receiver, drill a 1/8th hole every ten or so mill and epoxy in a thermal couple, make sure the tip is at min 2mm inside the vessel, then plot a chart with all the data points, measure in going and out going fluid temp, and if you can acquire one a mass flow sensor.

    and it all will tell you what has been said over again and again.
    just send me your data if you have done it before!!!!


    thats good enough for me!!!!!


    waiting for your data chart please.......

    oh and a picture of one receiver you have done this to

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    Re: Mr Mad and Big Pony Please explain

    I haven't bothered as I all ready know from practical experience of working with and building units. I simply offered you a way to prove to your self what we are all saying since you don't wish to trust what all of us have said in our own words.

    and Honestly even if I did have said data I wouldn't give it to you, I'd insist on you doing it for your self as you'd learn far more from the physical act them me spoon feeding you. The best knowledge is won by the virtue of excersising skill!

    I offered you a sound method to test and see for your self, like all knowledge you can either accept it, or toss it in the bin, the choice is and all ways will be yours.

    And as befor I'll state that all and any p/t measures and comparisons will be assuming a flawless system with no traces of non condensibles in it.
    Last edited by The MG Pony; 10-08-2013 at 09:10 PM.
    Now in Redvers Sask.

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    Re: Mr Mad and Big Pony Please explain

    Quote Originally Posted by rjsinoz View Post
    j

    just send me your data if you have done it before!!!!


    thats good enough for me!!!!!


    waiting for your data chart please.......

    oh and a picture of one receiver you have done this to

    You got a right bee in your bonnet haven't you...this is another thread I've read that your involved with and your a right keyboard warrior, most members on here don't take it half as seriously as you...and it just isn't welcome. If new members read the kind of replies that you put up then they wont bother replying or posting in the first place.

    Rep points to MG..

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    Re: Mr Mad and Big Pony Please explain

    Quote Originally Posted by The MG Pony View Post
    I haven't bothered as I all ready know from practical experience of working with and building units. I simply offered you a way to prove to your self what we are all saying since you don't wish to trust what all of us have said in our own words.

    and Honestly even if I did have said data I wouldn't give it to you, I'd insist on you doing it for your self as you'd learn far more from the physical act them me spoon feeding you. The best knowledge is won by the virtue of excersising skill!

    I offered you a sound method to test and see for your self, like all knowledge you can either accept it, or toss it in the bin, the choice is and all ways will be yours.

    And as befor I'll state that all and any p/t measures and comparisons will be assuming a flawless system with no traces of non condensibles in it.
    just as a i thought big pony maybe you should build your own little experiment and see what happens,
    because saying something will occur just because you say it will means nothing,

    read a page from your own book......

    Quote Originally Posted by The MG Pony View Post
    I'd insist on you doing it for your self as you'd learn far more from the physical act them me spoon feeding you.[/B] The best knowledge is won by the virtue of excersising skill! [/B]
    remember big pony you are just a young man only 30 only 3 years older than i. do you really think you know so much more than others close to your age. remember mate I work 80hrs a week and im not obsessed with ponys like you, and to answer your question... have i built a unit b4? ha, ive built 2000kw screw racks for cold storage, i got employed as a engineer at a major supplier in Oz as a 2 year tradesman and all i did was tell others how to build units. i dont punch figures into a pc i have equations i use.
    your very smart but very lazy my workmanship would crush anything you pull out of your ass,
    never did answer my question either did you clean that evap coil at that pub or just tell the customer he had to...

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    Re: Mr Mad and Big Pony Please explain

    I been doing this sort of stuff from the age of six clearly I know more then you, I been trying to share my good fortune of growing up in industry with you, but you rather toss it in the bin. So be it, in the end it will be your loss.

    Lazy lmao some times you are so wrong it is ammusing! thanks needed a luagh!

    being a very bussy company the head ups decided we did nothing till they fixed the issue with the door and other majour fualts with the room its self, I have since left the company as they did not allow us good enough time to do a proper job of it. Your assumptions are the death of you mate!

    I have built 500w co2 lasers, autocascade systems, ultradeep vac systems, let alone my experiance in high explosives and blasting, machining, and so fourth, all for personal education, the best way to understand some thing is to make it your self. So if I just give you data what will you learn? How to read paper! since our field isn't paper but hands on dynamic systems in a goal to balance it best we can thermaly you need to learn by making it your self. These guys on this very forum where instermental in furthering both my theoretical grasp and mechanical system side of my knowledge I see them offering you the same gift free of charge and you are just shy of spiting in their faces for their efforts.

    Any one can read blue prints and make a system, most grade 12 students can do that, I am asking what have you created just for a luagh then made it work in the real world? all by your self at home? you give me the backing of a company you name it I can build it, too easy, when you have nothing but your own resources thats a game changer thats when you need to think your way through cost issues suply issues and resources, this is where you will learn the most!

    My last project was living way up a mountain where I built a solar system and a hydro turbine, 780 feet of pipe line, engineered and built my own water processing system, just me and my dogs, and ya I love horses, worked with race horses and retired work horses and my faverit was this small shetland welsh quarter horse, now what the sod does that change? what effect does it have on the fact I have a life time of being in and around industrial environments and all the knowledge that brings?

    I do what I do becuase I love it, and I live it, so it is a life time of experiance, I could care less about the money, what is it to you, why are you even here?

    You seem to be here more for rabble rousing then education.
    Last edited by The MG Pony; 11-08-2013 at 05:27 AM.
    Now in Redvers Sask.

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