Lifting Condensing units!

[daddymac]

I don't install many large units, but I've got a few coming up! How do you experienced boys get a Daikin 125 size twin fan unit up on the wall without hospitalising youself? It needs to be out of reach of any passing pondlife!
The site has no forklifts available and access is pretty ropey! I notice that SRW do an electric hoist? Has anyone got one and is it as good as it looks?
Is it worth getting one?

Answers on a postcard to the usual address!!

[Mark]

Hi
Check your nearest hire shop for suitable lifting equiptment.Have the weight of the unit at hand.
Good luck
With kind regards. Mark

[SteveCass]

I have used a Genie superlift in the past. You need to know what height you are lifting to and have level ground below. Always got them from HSS Hire shops, can be expensive to keep for a long time though.

Otherwise I have used an electric hoist ( I think it is the one you mention). It was basically an electric hoist fixed up on unistrut brackets. It also has a special bracket to level the unit ( moves the hook to the heavy end). It was very useful, not just for lifts from uneven ground, but also you could make other rigs for the motor and do many other things.

Hope this helps and get the fan end everytime, if you can,

Steve

[Slim R410a]

Genie every time.
Our company has its own. I think its more work loading the bloody thing on/off the van!

[davej]

Hi daddymac,
we very often hire the genies for lifting but if where we cant get one in we would use zip up scaffold and lift the unit bit by bit hireing a board each time and lifting up to that then lift the board again etc. its not as hard as it seems

[eggs]

Get yourself down to machine mart for a block and tackle.
make your two vertical unistruts longer than usual, fit a pair of 600 cantalevers at the top, a unistrut spanning them, hook your block and tackle on, and pull away. all in £60.00 .

keep your £700.00 sub zero thingies.

cheers

eggs

[Jase]

Genie lifter SLK15 should do the trick or you could use a scissor lifter which is capable of carrying weight of 2 men and unit.
Good luck and be safe

Jase

[Andy W]

Genie lift, and don't forget the extension forks, I pay approx £80 for a days hire, usually arrange for HSS to drop one off, the guy drops it off and unloads / assembles it, I tell him to hang on for 10 mins to save him a return trip back later in rush hour traffic.........I have not had one to refuse to wait yet, they will even give you a lift with the unit!

Small scaffold tower or trestles + boards. Really it all depends on which site you are working on and if they have there own health and safety policy policed by a little bloke with an attidude problem who is only loved by his mother, you know the type I mean.

[Rob S]

One of the coolest material handling tools I own is a Unistrut Trolley (two of them accualy). I just keep 60ft of P1000 on the truck at all times... with other misc bits.
The set up I use for single story buildings is simple.. one end hooks up to my trucks ladder rack, right off the back. The other end hooks up to an Adjustable Aframe (custom made.. lightweight) on the roof. Use a come-a-long to pick up the condensor from the van. And use a Mechanical wench to get it to the roof. Set up time is about 10mins... All the pieces are just pinned together.
It works great for those 3PM on Friday emergency sled change outs. When theres no one to help you and getting a lift or crane just can't happen.
Mostly use the set up for changing out large AirHandler fan motors, large compressors, or anything else.

[Peter_1]

Rob S, do you have the possibility to take a picture or make an easy schematic of this?

[Rob S]

http://www.unistrut.com/ You'll beable to build what ever you want. Yes there is alot more to unistrut than just hanging pipe. Trolleys are under > Products > 1 5/8" metal framing > General Fittings

[Dan]

Rob, I have a vague picture, but a simple stick drawing might help me visualize this more accurately. The strut goes vertical up the wall? The Trolley is captured within the strut for vertical lift? Thanks for the idea

[Peter_1]

Seems that more struggling with visualising this idea, even English speaking persons.

[Peter_1]

This is a rather bad faxcopy of an electrical hoist I mentioned once to Chemi and Aiyub in another thread.

The arm can swing 180°, on the arm is a sliding cheap electrical hoits which can lift easily 200 kg 10 m high and the hoits is attached on the standard airco bracket.

I saw it once and for me, there were some small disadvantages.
The Italian company who makes this unit no longer excists.
And with all the Googling I did, I can't find back a picture of it.

[Peter_1]

This is a rather bad faxcopy of an electrical hoist I mentioned once to Chemi and Aiyub in another thread.

The arm can swing 180°, on the arm is a sliding cheap electrical hoits which can lift easily 200 kg 10 m high and the hoits is attached on the standard airco bracket.

I saw it once and for me, there were some small disadvantages.
The Italian company who makes this unit no longer excists.
And with all the Googling I did, I can't find back a picture of it.

Well, well, well ...have to edit my own posts.
Plenty of ideas now. I think I will once make one myself

Disadvantage of this hoist I once used was that you have to take the electrical hoist along the ladder with you.

[Karl Hofmann]

WOW the price of the Sub Zero lifter has increased slightly, I bought one years ago from the guy who makes them and has proven to be very usefull and has impressed me. It can be assembled off a ladder though it could be made by a DIYer and a welder but the reason that any lifting equipment is so expensive is because it has to be proven to lift a certain capacity and also the manufacturer must insure himself against any legal action should there be a failure. If its a one off, then make yourself, if you will use it a lot on sites where safety is an issue, then the Sub Zero lifter works well, I'd be lost without it.

[Andy W]

The guy who makes the sub zero, Mick Bailey is a mate of mine from way back, when he first started to manufacture the lifts he told me how expensive they were because of all the trials and testing etc for insurance purposes, all that money has to be recouped.

[daddymac]

Hi Guy's

Sorry for the late reply, computer been up the swanny!! Thanks for all your input! I'll digest it and let you know how we get on!
Best Regards!

Daddymac

[Peter_1]

Can you share some pictures of this hoist?
Couldn't find anything about it.

[Karl Hofmann]

Peter,

Here is a link to Sub Zeros website. The guy bust a gut to make sure that I got mine in time to do an install, he delivered it personally, nice chap too, I wish him luck
http://www.subzeroltd.co.uk

[rbartlett]

we use these for both indoor and outdoor lifting. way better and far easier.

http://www.genielift.com/ml-series/ml-1-1.asp

this is the bigger version for 5.8m lifting. they do a smaller 3.8 one which suits most installs..

cheers

richard

[leftjobrunning]

If I was you I would hire two strapping apprentices and buy a set of stilts for them.

It'll make men out of them!

[Peter_1]

I bought my genie more then 15 years ago but there's a big disadvantage for lifting heavy loads to a roof and taking the units of: as soon you take the load of the lift, the compressed air expands the cilinder and shoots the cilinder in the air. I 'blow' once this way a hole in a roof of more then 1 x 1 m.
You first have to tie it to the ground or to the wheels before you take of the lift.

[paul_h]

Anyone know if anything like the subzero hoist device exists in australia?
I need a hoist because I'm working solo and so many people want a/cs moved up and down walls.
I was going to buy something like an RGON mini lifter which sell for $2200 here:
http://www.rgonminilifters.com.au/acpvl.html
But it doesn't solve the problem of me getting a heavy split 1m up onto the hoist and it would be useless on a unstable dirt ground, so I'm favouring the hoist idea.
Might make one if I don't hear anything, but really I need one monday for a job, so if I can buy one I might just do that.
I normally use a genie lift hand winch fork lifter, but that's a pain to hire, along with a trailer. This monday job is down a tight carpark at tha back of an alley way, so I don't want to bring a trailer.

edit: peter_1: did you end up making anything?
I've heard nothing back from sub zero re: distributors
Mondays job got cancelled anyway. I quoted $280 to decommish and remove a unit (including electrical from the switchboard and the ceiling) because the genie lift and trailer hire was going to cost me $110. Some other guy quoted $150!?, so there's no rush on a hoist anymore.

[Makeit go Right]

I bought my genie more then 15 years ago but there's a big disadvantage for lifting heavy loads to a roof and taking the units of: as soon you take the load of the lift, the compressed air expands the cylinder and shoots the cylinder in the air. I 'blow' once this way a hole in a roof of more then 1 x 1 m.
You first have to tie it to the ground or to the wheels before you take off the lift.

Same kind of thing with one of these gas-lifting units. Works great for hoisting a cassette up to the ceiling and holding it there while fixing, which is a bit similar to the OP who wants to lift a condenser up 2-3m on the wall.

We needed to push a condenser up through a skylight a couple of years ago. All went great, smoothly elevated up, through, and ready to take off the platform. Then, as soon as they started to take the weight of the condenser (to take it off), the platform shot up into the air another 6ft. Scary as the condenser went up with it and could have then fallen off the platform onto one of the engineers.

As you say, on such a lift, one needs to get a strap/cable/rope connected to the base, extended up to the platform: as soon as you get to the required height, secure the cable/cord to the platform to restrain it from going any further upward. THEN lift off the load. The platform can't go anywhere and all's safe.

It is great kit, otherwise as it fits in the van easy enough (or a car) and it is easy to assemble.

I would say that using it outside on soil/grass would be a bit tricky, as with that weight the thing just might sink into the soil and give problems. Same with a genny, maybe. Maybe some thick plywood sheet underneath, possibly.

[majo]

we also use this one:

http://www.genielift.com/ml-series/ml-1-1.asp

But as peter said, taking of the weight will cause it to shoot up.

I always lift the unit without the brackets fixed to the wall. Lift it over, install the brackets, and let the pressure off the cilinder and the unit drops itself slowly on the brackets.

Easy to do... but I used it this week to lift a dual fan Altherma unit up for 3-4m. It went fine, but I almost s*** my pants doing it.

[paul_h]

Anyone in Australia used the DerbyLifter as sold by polyaire?
Similar winch thing to sub zeros, but only works on the beige wall hanging brackets, which is what I use anyway.
http://www.derbyair.com.au/installer.htm

Rubbish aircons though, still using R22!

[paul_h]

Damn, I'm still trying to find a reasonably priced hoist or system that works. I'm turning down heaps of work until I get one unfortunately.

Most of my jobs requiring a hoist are moving rather than install (as I'm not licenced for new cable runs), so the unistrut/winch etc is out, because no one uses unistrut brackets here with the strut mounted to the wall.
If cantilever brackets are used by an installer, it's straight onto the wall, no unistrut rails in sight. Quite often the top of the unit is just under an eave or some other obstruction, so nothing like a winch can be mounted above it if I installed my own brackets above the unit anyway.

Tried buying a lil' sumner, but the 2210 is au$2717 !
Handy little hoist, but a bit much for something that is only useful on flat level concrete ground. Same as a genie lift.
I wished someone hired out small sumner lifts, but they only have the massive genie style ones, so a trailer and two men needed anyway.

Seems I'm going to need a few different types and systems, so can't really spend almost au$3k just on a 3m sumner lift.

[Trevor_1]

I've used a couple of lifts, one was the SkyJack which is a bit like the Genie (but more portable), the one I currently use is the Subo Hoist which is really easy to use, I particularly like the fact that you can use it single handed even with a large unit and can be used with either Unistrut or BBJ type 2 brackets. Check out hvacpro.co.uk they gave great service

[fridge doctor]

Rob S wrote "And use a Mechanical wench to get it to the roof" Surprised no-one picked up on that !!

[nadeemnisa]

Dear
Plz used the Chain Block for lifting you system
Regards
Nadeem

[nike123]

Dear
Plz used the Chain Block for lifting you system
Regards
Nadeem

Could you explain what is chain block!

[Brian_UK]

Chain Hoist, sorry for small picture.

[nike123]

Thanks Brian! That thing could usually lift from 1 ton and above and still need some support to do that. Also it could usually lift only 2-3m.
I think this is more appropriate for that purpose:
http://www.salvadorescoda.com/tecnic...adorBranco.pdf

[wombat]

The Genie gas operated lifter I use has 3 eye bolts below the platfom where I connect a chain then wrap around a leg and secure when the lifter is a the desired height. No chance of the platform rising as occured once.

[Ireland]

We use Sumner lifts.

We got 3 of them a couple of years ago and they have themselves well paid for at this stage.

The cost us about €900.00 each when we got them.

http://www.sumner.com/sumner/subdisp...7.8.0.0.0.html