Retrofitting R22 with 407F

[Coorsman777]

Looking to retrofit some R22 supermarket rack systems with 407F. Anyone out there done this? Feedback is greatly appreciated.

[THE DUDE]

Have not used R-407F yet. Most stores I service are R-407A for Low and Med temp. It seems all the Salesmen are beating down doors saying why their R-407 is better than the next. To me, They all have the same 3 Refrigerants and most larger systems will Never notice the CLAIMED Advantages/Disadvantages from A through F
R-32 R-125 R-134A

407A	R-32/125/134a (20.0/40.0/40.0)
407B	R-32/125/134a (10.0/70.0/20.0)
407C	R-32/125/134a (23.0/25.0/52.0)
407D	R-32/125/134a (15.0/15.0/70.0)
407E	R-32/125/134a (25.0/15.0/60.0)
407F	R-32/125/134a (30.0/30.0/40.0)

[chillerman2006]

R407f performax LT.JPG

with only 0.05 ODP & higher GWP with all 400 series refrigerants I struggle to see why R22 is banned without a far better replacement being available first

R's chillerman

[anish]

what should be the superheat and subcooling for a split ac with capillary tube indoor in 407c machine .

[flyinkiwi]

with only 0.05 ODP & higher GWP with all 400 series refrigerants I struggle to see why R22 is banned without a far better replacement being available first

R's chillerman

Why, CM! So we can all make money doing repeated, expensive retrofits!

And the nice man that makes the rubbish refrigerants that we only use for 10 years makes money again, and again, and again...

[THE DUDE]

Just had a Service call at a Large Supermarket this A.M. Fixed a Small/Medium sized leak on a TXV Body. ( I was there for a Electrical Problem). The System is a Multiplex Rack, R-407A. Each Circut has a SORIT and a LLSV. The Controls are set to cycle off both the SORT and the LLSV.(as per spec)
SO.....I started thinking, If the Circut is isolated in the off cycle and there is a leak on that Circut..........Wont the Refrigerant Fractionate.
In short....You may Start off with one Composition and in time...End up with another, there-by the Sales pitches for R-407 A though F negates one to the other..

[dogma]

Just had a Service call at a Large Supermarket this A.M. Fixed a Small/Medium sized leak on a TXV Body. ( I was there for a Electrical Problem). The System is a Multiplex Rack, R-407A. Each Circut has a SORIT and a LLSV. The Controls are set to cycle off both the SORT and the LLSV.(as per spec)
SO.....I started thinking, If the Circut is isolated in the off cycle and there is a leak on that Circut..........Wont the Refrigerant Fractionate.
In short....You may Start off with one Composition and in time...End up with another, there-by the Sales pitches for R-407 A though F negates one to the other..

Agreed..

[dogma]

Keeps us in a Job though... the customer is the one that suffers........ and the added costs are past through to the consumer at the end.....

[Coorsman777]

Retrofitting R-22 with a 407 series refrigerant is not an ideal situation. The EPA is kind of tying business' hands and forcing us to do this even though there is not a reasonable alternative. I am just trying to determine what the best worst alternative is. I wonder if the government bureaucrats have considered the impact of all the leaks from o-rings and gaskets caused by the retrofit process on the odp or gwp or whatever 3 letter acronym they will come up with next...

[flyinkiwi]

Retrofitting R-22 with a 407 series refrigerant is not an ideal situation. The EPA is kind of tying business' hands and forcing us to do this even though there is not a reasonable alternative. I am just trying to determine what the best worst alternative is. I wonder if the government bureaucrats have considered the impact of all the leaks from o-rings and gaskets caused by the retrofit process on the odp or gwp or whatever 3 letter acronym they will come up with next...

I think the lack of consideration is worldwide - we have an emissions trading scheme coming into effect in NZ, which is intended to heavily penalize the use of high ODP gasses. As yet, there are very few economical replacements for these refrigerants, and it leaves us with no option to fit highly penalized gasses, and make a change when the options do become available.

The biggest loser is the consumer as the costs are passed on down, and the biggest winner is the taxman, who not only takes the import levy on the refrigerant, but also clips the ticket for his sales tax at every step along the way.

TLA is the next acronym.