Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly View Post
RB.
We all do what we have to do to earn a shilling.
What I have stated is the industry standard for what I do.
If your guys don't get travel time then fair enough!


My guys have always got door to door at the applicable rate but I may need to speak to our accountant based on the taxible perk status mentioned.


You I have some other form of incentive to keep staff I assume.
I accepted the terms I am on when I joined my present company, they have changed when

I will react is depending upon what options are available.

They don't give me the terms I have because they love me. they
offered because others are willing to offer them.
It is not a fair argument to state that engineers expect special treatment.
have plenty of family who are admin or office based. Who all earn a lot more than me.
Especially those in the home counties.


Engineers have lost the respect of it being a real trade when the Japanese came in a de-skilled it with their splits. Before then we were considered a black science and other trades would not touch it. The higher end engineers (such as you) should have kept that but sadly through short sightedness and the lack of cohesive action those were dragged down too.

The supermarkets have exploited this by driving down the market and the numerous fridge companies who have gone bust chasing the rate down only made things worse. If the trade had stuck together 20 years ago and refused to co-operate by insisting on a decent rate and recognition for the skillset (whilst ensuring the skill set was held) then we would all be in a better position.


I do however expect some recognition for my many years of experience and continued learning.
My company cost me out at overtime rates for travel outside of normal hours.
I however irrespective of what hour it is, am paid at flat rate for travel.
When called out I get paid at overtime rate, which is still less than that I am being charged out at.

Whatever my rate it is acceptable to me and my employer is making money which is what it is all about is it not.


As I say I cannot hide my dismay how easily we have let ourselves be downtrodden. Ironically F-Gas could (and should) have been the push back but the resistance from within the trade decreases the potential for engineers to get their true worth (whatever that may be?)

The problem comes, as I see it when you have contracts that have been won on a shoestring and the only one left to squeeze is the engineer!
Because as you state you can't squeeze the office staff anymore.


Decent management will also look at the office staff levels to see if savings can be made. Of course it may not be apparent to those out on the road

We all are being treated more and more as a commodity.

Self inflicted by our own trade

As I have tried to state I don't want to create a conflict with my employer.
Sadly there are more and more who think because someone is office based they are superior to the guy on the tools.


This is a post industrial hang up. 100+ years ago hands on trades were considered as the most valued. ‘Hero’s’ of the day were IK Brunel, Stevenson, Watt etc. Those able to work with their hands help build the empire and made Britain great.

As wealth grew so did education. Most parents want more for their children then they managed. Therefore if you worked hard your Child may get a better education and perhaps go to university. That was considered something to be very proud of, the chances of a university educated person considering a hands on trade was slight.

So as the balance of recognition drifted from hands on to hands off was largely the responsibility of the workers

This in time has only got worse where now kids aspire to be famous as it’s all ‘reality stars’. Hero’s are considered those who can run 100m in under 10 seconds. Usain Bolt contributes absolutely nothing yet ‘earns’ huge amounts far beyond anyone here will ever get. Go figure..


I have huge respect for you and a good few others on this forum who make rational and sensible fiscal decision regularly.
In fact the fact that you are on the forum Say's it all really!

From a personal point. I would not be able to continue doing the job I love if many more of my conditions are changed.

Grizzly


Grizz, this isn’t me having a pop at you (especially you) or anyone else here. I despair a Ford dealer can charge up to £100 PH to change oil when your company probably struggles to bill £50 for you..

I had an argument with a manager of a dental practice as she was adamant £35 PH was outrageous. I suggested what a dentist charged was far more offensive but she considered them ‘worthy’ of their lifestyle and resented us getting by on a lot less (she also suggested we were not worth what a plumber earned either)

It’s all in our own hands to make the trade a better place. Sadly we are our own worse enemies