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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Rep Power

    Fgas record questions

    Correct defra legal paperwork for split a/c

    over 3kg on a typical small split,
    example casssette in ceiling void, 2 flares on condenser 2 flares on cassette and 10 mtr pipe with 2 brazes. 3.5kg r410a

    for the annual check......
    is an indirect check via temps, plus soap and sniffer check of easily accesable condenser flares and visual inspection of pipe that can be seen satisfactory?
    If not is one supposed to get access to cassette, strip back lagging over flares, leaktest, remake insulation, strip insulation over braze, check for oil and sniffer test?? ....................opinions please..

    .................................................................................................... ......
    on under 3kg... For example 7kw wallmount 10 mtr pipe run,
    exactly what paperwork are others raising at installation to comply with defra legislation.

    On under 3kg
    i assume if we are called to a system.. Example 7kw wallmount condenser disconnected by thieves and found by gate so complete loss of gas, that a gas added form same format as with over 3kg has to be filled out and a further leakcheck within 30 days?

    And finally
    it is highly recommended by en375 to pressure/leak test to 1.3 then 1.1map. Fujitsu when we last enquired admitted 3 way valves could leak by and were designed to seat under condenser positive pressure, and therefore nitrogen pressure testing should be done with condenser flares disconnected and plugged. Unfortunately these are the joints we are trying to check! (the internal joints would have been removed and brazed.)
    what are other engineers doing here. We think 1.1map 1 min, and 140psi 1 hour, then looking for .5 torr.....
    What if a leak is shown and we 99% sure it is 3 way valve letting by tiny amount. (shows up on torr test) after flares redone, braze and flares checked with soap and elec leaktester......

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Rep Power

    Re: Fgas record questions


    I'm not totally sure what you are asking?


    Air conditioners or Refrigeration systems are treated exactly the same.

    All engineers need to be qualified to C&G or CITB F-gas, to work on any
    static refrigerant containing system.

    Tests and inspections are required for systems containing over 3 Kg of refrigerant.

    The minimum inspection must include a leak detection using direct &/or indirect
    leak detection practices and must be done by someone who holds a minimum of
    a Cat 4 F-gas qualification.

    It is not a requirement to strip back insulation or physically inspect every inch of pipe
    but it is expected that by using recognised leak detection methods the system is
    signed off as leak free.

    If a leak is found a full repair must be carried out and the system must be left gas tight.

    If the unit has been a victim of vandalism then the recording of any gas recovered can't
    be logged but the amount of refrigerant added back into the system does need logging.
    The reason for addition would be recorded also to explain the losses.

    As for systems with extended pipe runs then any additions to the system done at the time
    of the installation should be recorded on the unit and logs and if the weight is taken
    above the 3 Kg weight then it will conform to F-gas legislation.




  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Rep Power

    Re: Fgas record questions

    Bob, Thank you for your reply. I want to know what paperwork needs to be raised for all the situations that you outlined... for fixed split systems with UNDER 3kg of refridgerent.. thank you.
    Googling keeps on throwing up info on over 3kg, bit not much on under.

    Thank you for your interpretation clarification of an acceptable leak test for over 3kg, the only guidance from defra i had found was "INSPECTION AF ALL MOVING OR VIBRATING PARTS" hence wondering to waht extent this is taken, ie removing insulation to get at flares/brazes. (Of course its obvious how to do this at a site, however i want to be doing it as closely as possible to defra recommendation.

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