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Thread: Soldering Expansion Valves
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18-12-2005, 08:37 AM #1
Soldering Expansion Valves
I am now starting to use soldered type expansion valves as opposed to flare.
What is the correct manner to solder or braze, without damaging the bellows .
Do i wrap a wet cloth around the body?
Any help appreciated
Any opinions, statements and facts expressed in this message do not constitute legal advice in any shape or form and is given for a general outlook in nature. You are advised to seek appropriate and specific professional assistance from a regulated and authorised advisor for definitive advice.
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18-12-2005, 08:39 AM #2
Re: Soldering Expansion Valves
I saw an engineer recently fix a leak on a soldered expansion valve with the orifice still in place.
I asked him wouldnt it damage the seat, he said.......the valve bodies can take a lot of heat...........
Im not so sureAny opinions, statements and facts expressed in this message do not constitute legal advice in any shape or form and is given for a general outlook in nature. You are advised to seek appropriate and specific professional assistance from a regulated and authorised advisor for definitive advice.
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18-12-2005, 11:42 AM #3
Re: Soldering Expansion Valves
i always work with solder connection..it's better because the most loss of refrigerant appeareas at the flare connections. but the orifice it's better to stay out...and always a wet cloth...you can do this also with the elecrovalve but it's always better to open it before brazing.
"do not follow where the path may lead. go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" R.W.Emerson
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18-12-2005, 12:36 PM #4
Re: Soldering Expansion Valves
Yes, use a wet rag and point the flame away from the valve body when soldering.
Takes a licking, keeps on ticking.
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19-12-2005, 01:19 AM #5
Re: Soldering Expansion Valves
Hi, depending on what sort of valve you are installing, if alco, or sporlann, we always wrap with wet cloth, or remove internals of valve and reassemble after brazing, but the new Danfoss TUAE series state not to wrap the valve as these valves are stainless steel, just heat the copper tails and let the silphos run into the copper plated stub of the valve, then after valve cools install orifice.
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19-12-2005, 03:35 PM #6
Re: Soldering Expansion Valves
Good for you Aiyub. I hate bloody flares.
Some valves come with detatchable flanges - no problem there.
On some larger valves you may even be able to unscrew the element as they were designed to be interchangeable across a range of refrigerants.
Take out all the guts that are meant to come out and lots of wet rag, flame pointing away from the body, clean all surfaces before you start and be quick.
Avoid quenching silver solder, because if you have a tiny leak, the capillary action will draw moistrure into the system.
Good luck.
________
Ferrari 312PB historyLast edited by Argus; 07-02-2011 at 08:46 AM.
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19-12-2005, 09:14 PM #7
Re: Soldering Expansion Valves
I'll go along with the rags and water Aiyub but there is also a product called PyroCool which can be used.
It comes in a pump action hand sprayer and is a type of cooling gel which dissipates the heat away from the area.
I have used it in the past and can be easier than water depending on the location.Brian - Newton Abbot, Devon, UK
Retired March 2015
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19-12-2005, 09:56 PM #8
Re: Soldering Expansion Valves
Pyrocool..............Hmmm
I must go look out for it
ThxAny opinions, statements and facts expressed in this message do not constitute legal advice in any shape or form and is given for a general outlook in nature. You are advised to seek appropriate and specific professional assistance from a regulated and authorised advisor for definitive advice.
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19-12-2005, 10:07 PM #9
Re: Soldering Expansion Valves
Hi Abe and mates , how are you doing guys . . . .
I was searching the Danfoss fitters notes to find what they say about soldering a tev , but didn't find anything , I found how they advise that the KV have to be soldered , I think the process is similar .
The source of this documents is danfoss fitters note file PFH00A102.pdf page 8 , accessible with more files at :
http://www.danfoss.com/BusinessAreas...ters+Notes.htm
RegardsEngineering, sciences, math, physics and my brain will generate "not responding " soon
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19-12-2005, 10:25 PM #10
Re: Soldering Expansion Valves
Just out of interest in case someone doesnt know, a KV has got soft solder inside it. So if there is too much heat it will run out.
I found this when I tried to repair one that was damaged.
ChillinIF AT FIRST YOU DON`T SUCCEED.
DESTROY ALL EVIDENCE THAT YOU TRIED!
and go get a cuppa
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19-12-2005, 10:27 PM #11
Re: Soldering Expansion Valves
Just out of interest in case someone doesnt know, a KV has got soft solder inside it. So if there is too much heat it will run out.
I found this when I tried to repair one that was damaged.
ChillinEngineering, sciences, math, physics and my brain will generate "not responding " soon
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19-12-2005, 10:28 PM #12
Re: Soldering Expansion Valves
The best thing to ues is safty sil solder it can be uesde on steel, coper or brass melting point higher then sofet solder and lower then brazing you will never burn a valve or drier
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20-12-2005, 08:26 AM #13
Re: Soldering Expansion Valves
Originally Posted by tony_rich
Thats intresting...............please can you provide more details Tony........
Where are you, in USA???Any opinions, statements and facts expressed in this message do not constitute legal advice in any shape or form and is given for a general outlook in nature. You are advised to seek appropriate and specific professional assistance from a regulated and authorised advisor for definitive advice.
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14-02-2006, 07:08 PM #14
Re: Soldering Expansion Valves
i can't speak for the dude but perhaps he was referring to silver solder and silfos rods (canadian thing). silver solder applications are the same as what he lists and requires 400-500 f less heat to flow than silfos (copper to copper only). as for flares, they are just as effective as sweat joint if you flare that copper tube accordingly.
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14-02-2006, 11:22 PM #15
Re: Soldering Expansion Valves
Personally I mostly sweat everything.. can't stand flares.
But if its a case were I have to use a flare. The flare is always a double and I use Nylog on it.Will melt ice for $101/hr
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09-06-2006, 08:31 PM #16
Re: Soldering Expansion Valves
Anyone who would reccomend using damp rags anywhere around a refrigeration system should switch to plumbing and get out of this trade. Moisture is incompressible and use of water anywhere near an opening in a system should be avoided as much as possible. There are tons of products that can be applied before and after the valve that will sufficiently absorb the heat and protect your valve. Some of them are puddy and some of them are spray on as mentioned before.
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09-06-2006, 09:02 PM #17
Re: Soldering Expansion Valves
Originally Posted by JimmyMurphy
If this scares you off, I won't tell some of the things I have done with water and ***** systems.
Moisture is incompressible and use of water anywhere near an opening in a system should be avoided as much as possible.
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09-06-2006, 09:09 PM #18
Re: Soldering Expansion Valves
Water is a compressor is definately a problem and there are tons of things we "used to do" that were incorrect. I think that giving the BEST advice on here would be better then simply providing 1 easy solution.
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09-06-2006, 11:02 PM #19
Re: Soldering Expansion Valves
Originally Posted by JimmyMurphy
Considering the the adjacent joints have already been made prior to the addition of a wet rag around the TXV head then there shouldn't be any major routes for the moisture to get inside the system. Any that does would no doubt be carried away with the low pressure nitrogen being used.Brian - Newton Abbot, Devon, UK
Retired March 2015
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10-06-2006, 12:25 AM #20
Re: Soldering Expansion Valves
Also, keep in mind that Sporlan Q-body valves have rubber o-rings sealing the cartridges to the body. These are more sensitive and I would recommend removing the cartridges. I don't think Sporlan says to do so, but I think it is a good idea.
Sweat valves are the only way to go. Much more reliable as far as leakage goes. In fact, sweat everything as opposed to mechanical fittings in refrigeration systems.Last edited by Dan; 10-06-2006 at 12:30 AM.
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10-06-2006, 12:49 AM #21
Re: Soldering Expansion Valves
absolutely
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10-06-2006, 02:20 AM #22
Re: Soldering Expansion Valves
Originally Posted by JimmyMurphy
Of course these are usually based on solid information founded on basic principles. When it comes time to "cut some corners" not knowing the difference can land someone in a world of problems.
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17-06-2006, 08:32 PM #23
Re: Soldering Expansion Valves
Alberta doesn't know every thing, this may be a shock to you, but I'm afraid it is true.
A wet rag does a wonderful job, it's thanks to a little thing known as nitrogen that keeps the inside at a slightly higher pressure then the out side whowudathunk it?
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Re: Soldering Expansion Valves
Originally Posted by JimmyMurphy
[sarcasm] why yes indeed, beacuse we dont have nitrogen going through the pipes we are soldering to prevent oxidizing, thereby having higher pressure inside the pipes... nor do we pressuretest the pipes with dry nitrogen after soldering... and pulling a vacuum... sheesh, do you think we have time for that? heck... lets just purge the system for a few minutes, get the air out and we'll be good to go...[/sarcasm]
having said that, I'm not a big fan of soldered TEV's... mostly because I work on industrial plants and from time to time look at provision plants and the like... and when a TEV has failed, you bet your hiney that the evaporator has been placed so close to the wall, you can only just squeeze your head sideways through to take a look, no room for your arms or hands... so you can either look at it, or touch it, no combination of the two.
everytime one of our office guys have ordered solder TEV's for the rare occasion where I have to build and comission a provision plant I've called up the wholesaler and told them our office guy made a wrong order and got them to sen me a flare valve instead... it's just about the only valve you cant service in place... why make it so that you can break it while installing it?Last edited by Tycho; 18-06-2006 at 01:12 AM.
-Cheers-
Tycho
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