Call for Euro BAN on fgas. Your thoughts?

[RSTC]

Via eia international: "NGOs call on EU for ambitious F-gas phase-out

July 3, 2012
LONDON: A coalition of leading environmental organisations has called on the European Union’s climate Commissioner, Connie Hedegaard, to propose ambitious action to phase out climate-changing fluorinated gases, or F-gases.
The call – jointly issued by the Environmental Investigation Agency, European Environmental Bureau, Greenpeace, World Wide Fund for Nature, Deutsche Umwelthilfe, Climate Action Network Europe, Institute for Governance & Sustainable Development, Natuur & Milieu, CDM Watch and ClientEarth – comes as the EU is preparing a review of the laws governing F-gases and points out that research conducted for the European Commission shows the use of F-gases can be banned from new equipment in most sectors by 2020..." read on here:


http://www.eia-international.org/ngo...-gas-phase-out

[RSTC]

What are the thoughts of R.E. denizens?

[NoNickName]

I am in favour. f-gases are in the hands of few multinational companies, mainly US-based.
In order to allow independence of supplies for EU countries, and also third countries sourcing from EU, refrigerant gases shall be world wide available, and independent from distribution networks and international disputes.
Healthy foods for the the third world very much depend on the cold chain, which in turn depend on availability of f-gases.
Notwithstanding the climate change blabber...

[Rob White]

Commission shows the use of F-gases can be banned from new equipment in most sectors by 2020..." read on here:


http://www.eia-international.org/ngo...-gas-phase-out

I think I'm in favour of it but they would have to replace the HFC
with a environmentaly friendly refrigerant, let alone an efficient one.

I know there are HC's and recently there are HFO's, we have always
had NH3 and CO2 so they will have to come up with a refrigerant that
has good heat transfer properties as well as enviromentaly friendley.

Regards

Rob

.

[HVACRsaurus]

I'm going to go all conspiracy theory on the situation (and rant alert)!!

Every so often a bunch of do gooders discover a common evil and bring about efforts to make it right - this allows opportunity for corporations and governments to make millions if not billions of dollars.

Ten or twenty years later they say - oh, our revenue projection isn't as big as we want... Let's find a new common evil so we can rip everyone off again!!

Soon it will be part of a business plan to identify these evils every "X" years to keep profits up - all at the same time that certain products are being developed / made / sold so that these products can become the "some day" common evil.

Thirty years ago it was CFC's as we all know, twenty years ago it was leaded petrol, ten years ago it was terrorisim, now it's carbon. In ten years who knows what, perhaps F gasses.

[NoNickName]

Every so often a bunch of do gooders discover a common evil and bring about efforts to make it right - this allows opportunity for corporations and governments to make millions if not billions of dollars.

HCFC were phased out when their patents were expiring and new patented refrigerants were phased in, especially drop ins and HFO's. There's not a single good reason why car manufacturers should use R1234yf in MAC, but there it goes.

One proposal to reduce the impact of refrigerant leakages is to ban flooded evaporators, which would immediately backfire in greater plant power consumption and indirect carbon footprint.

[RSTC]

@nonickname "f-gases are in the hands of few multinational companies"

I see your point, but I wonder if it follows that the gases that replace them won't also be?

[NoNickName]

@nonickname "f-gases are in the hands of few multinational companies"

I see your point, but I wonder if it follows that the gases that replace them won't also be?

Natural refrigerants are not patented and worldwide available (propane and all HC, ammonia, co2).

[RSTC]

I don't see anybody filling a VRF with any of the above any time soon, do you?

[NoNickName]

I don't see anybody filling a VRF with any of the above any time soon, do you?

As soon as HFC are phased out, the very next day all VRF will be charged with anything.

[MikeHolm]

Natural refrigerants are not patented and worldwide available (propane and all HC, ammonia, co2).

Maybe not but the process to "purify" them may be.....

[gwynn jones]

I've been doing this for a long time, I've seen lots of changes, very few for the better.
I'll keep my head down while these people blunder around and carry on, roll on retirement.
It strikes me that once again the UK will be complying with all these new rules and regs, at great expense to the customer and fridge firms while most of the rest of the world carries on as usual......