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  1. #1
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    Cool k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting



    Hi sirs,

    I would like to ask for help for the following issues.

    I have moved the k20 ice maker. Ever since I moved it it has not started.

    I checked the compressor it works.
    I checked the pump it works as well.

    The ice thickness thermostat I checked had a leak in the capillar pipes.

    So i need to replace this item.

    Does this mean it will solve the problem of not starting?

    I have the scheme here:

    http://db.tt/o45ef8EF

    I am going to order the item this week and I would probably test it again in 40 days when I get it.

    Let me know if you guys know about how to get this started or troubleshooted.
    Last edited by xbox40489; 10-08-2012 at 09:29 AM.



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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    Wasn't it the Italians who invented spaghetti? they want shooting for all this switching Neutrals they do as it's down right dangerous

    Make sure the bin stat is working as it should (closed to run I fink...) as this is what can stop the machine or that the fuse is OK.

    Does it run on clean as we would often get the no ice call but the pump should run
    Last edited by r.bartlett; 15-06-2012 at 07:50 PM.

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    as a temporary measure- link the thickness stat out to prove that the the system makes ice- it wont initiate a harvest cycle as the stat is linked but it prooves the machine will work when the stat is fitted- replacing the stat is tricky as the capillary fixes to the evap plate underneath- may need to remove the cutter grid and water tray to acesss the screw head

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    Quote Originally Posted by install monkey View Post
    as a temporary measure- link the thickness stat out to prove that the the system makes ice- it wont initiate a harvest cycle as the stat is linked but it prooves the machine will work when the stat is fitted- replacing the stat is tricky as the capillary fixes to the evap plate underneath- may need to remove the cutter grid and water tray to acesss the screw head
    I haven't worked on one of these for many years but doesn't the comp will run in either open or closed afair

    The stat just operates the HGV?

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    yep-your right- cant give rep points- the thickness stat operates the hot gas valve- the compressor runs via the push button ,via the klixon and start relay.the wiring on them is a nighmare as you say- switching neutrals,stripy cables, and transformers.cutter grids.paddle switches- unless he means the bin stat capillary is snapped as that is run underneath the ice bin
    Quote Originally Posted by r.bartlett View Post
    I haven't worked on one of these for many years but doesn't the comp will run in either open or closed afair

    The stat just operates the HGV?

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    ive had problems with these not starting before because of a faulty cutting grid m8, check continuity

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    I have this machine transported. From one country to another.

    So I would think it has been thrown with. Or it's age is showing.

    So as I said.

    I witnessed the pump working, by having both buttons pushed in. The green and the blue one.
    I connect the circuit for the pump I think. But not the compressor.

    The cutter grid is getting hot. So also that is ok. No continuity problems. The only strange thing about the cutter grid is that is giving me more then 18V reading on my multimeter.

    Does this issue have to do with the shot thickness thermostat? If I study the scheme I gave.

    I have this picture of the topinterior of a ignis k20 models.

    This is not my machine but an example. As it looks the same:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/j43bvlaulr...20Interior.jpg

    A blue and white cable and a brown cable are connected to the K20 K40 Ice Machine 18 Volt Transformer for the Cutter Grid. The brown cable is directly coming from the green switch as you close the circuit by pressing the greenbutton. The brown cable is soldered on the transformer on 220V by default. You can change and solder it to 240V. But my current from the wall reads 219V, which is close enough.

    So as a result K20 K40 Ice Machine 18 Volt Transformer for the Cutter Grid give me around 50V instead of the 18V asked as for right now with the shot Ice Thickness Thermostat with it's broken capillar pipe.

    Also another thing I noticed with my multimeter for continiuty i s that instead of beeping continiously. It was giving me beeps and pause and beep and pauses when I was checking the blue cable. So say the continuity ofrom the ice thickness thermostat to the fuse box. I cant test this no more now. As I removed the Ice thickness item already. And right now the 220V is not connected. Might give it a try next week when 220V is up.


    I can't have this machine working for now, I did not look into what controls what from my scheme. But I have tried as I said to check if all things are working.

    As a recap:

    The pump works.

    K20 K40 ICE MACHINE 18 VOLT TRANSFORMER FOR CUTTER GRID works as well but it is giving me 50V instead of de required 18V.

    The compressor works. Plus the fan next to the compressor.

    I would think the heating element next to the compressor works as well. I forgot the name of it.

    Water Inlet / Fill Valve for Philips K20 40 Ice Machine supposed to work. As when powered it won't let any water inside?

    Thermostat - K20/40 Ice Machine Bin Full Sensor Philips, this one I dont know how to test this one. This might be shot too as the machine is stuck on the cycle that it is full. Maybe.

    I have ordered my spare part this week. The ice thickness thermostat.

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PHILIPS-K2...item1e5b88eee6


    I will need to wait for it to arrive from the UK to do more testing. As you can see the item origin.

    Could I have ordered from a cheaper source and from the United states or China? I live in St Maarten in the caribbean. I would think anywhere else then the UK would be cheaper.




    r.bartlett:

    You are right the damn thing looks like pasta spagetti right away. But then again I was happy when it worked before I moved it.

    The fuse looks intact. I pull out the fuse and checked it out and the fuse is ok. Does the pump working state that the fuse is oke? I havent studied the scheme.

    And the clean cycle works. But I think I havent had it long enough on to see if the inletvalve is working.


    install monkey:

    I wouldnt know how to link out the thickness stat. Do you mean to Connect the blue with the other wires? I have already taken the stat out of its place. But you can give me pointers how to link this. So I can still test it while the new stat arrives.


    I have to do the dirty work to remove the cutter grid and the evaporator. to screw on the new stat when it arrives. Last time I checked it is just screwed onto the evaporator plate. I am not sure no more. I have cleaned this machine in the past.

    Also I have seen on the picture above of the top interior. The capillar was protected with a plastic tube. Mine was not protected at all and broke off when I was removing the stat.from its place while troubleshooting.


    r.bartlett:


    Not sure what HGV means.

    install monkey:

    Yes as you can read the capillary is snapped. Maybe it was snapped since I moved it. Which explains why the machine didnt start after being transported from country to country.

    So I am awaiting the new ice thickness thermostat with a good capillary to see if it relieves this problem.


    In the mean time all tips are welcome. If anything I will post when the part arrive in say 6 weeks time?

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    Please note, the BLUE button is the clean out (wash cycle) and if it is pushed IN it will STOP the compressor from running.
    Make sure it is NOT pushed in if you are trying to test the ice making cycle.
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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    B G Scott:

    Ok so for now do you think it is worth testing without the ice thickness thermostat?

    I can manage to test if you show me how to hook up the cables. Or link the cables.

    I can say for now. The greenbutton pressed in never gave me a starting compressor.

    Only when I connect the compressor cables directly to the 220V(black cable and the other brown cable) it will start. Which means the compressor is doing fine.

    What else can I try?

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    Quote Originally Posted by xbox40489 View Post
    B G Scott:

    Ok so for now do you think it is worth testing without the ice thickness thermostat?

    I can manage to test if you show me how to hook up the cables. Or link the cables.

    I can say for now. The greenbutton pressed in never gave me a starting compressor.

    Only when I connect the compressor cables directly to the 220V(black cable and the other brown cable) it will start. Which means the compressor is doing fine.

    What else can I try?
    Follow the diagram and see where the power stops. Remember as we say they switch on the Neturals too...

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    Quote Originally Posted by r.bartlett View Post
    Follow the diagram and see where the power stops. Remember as we say they switch on the Neturals too...
    Ok so you want me to press the greenbutton in and go on hunting where the power stops.

    I dont understand how I check the switching on neutrals.

    My greenswitch might be broke?

    The reaction from the greenswitch is that is does not power the pump, no noise nothing.

    Is the solenoid the beginning of the problem? Because it has to connect cable 26(blue) to my pump to power it.

    It seems not to connect the same wire 26 to the pump motor to start it up!

    I am going to investigate it later.

    Here was the scheme again:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/j43bvlaulr...20Interior.jpg

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    OK lets start at the beginning, try not to look at the whole system break in down into small sections.
    1/ If you press the Green button does the pump start.?
    If yes then the main switch is OK (if the bin stat is made), if the pump does not start then FIRST check the you have continuity through the bin stat.
    2/ the only control on this machine that stops the compressor from running is the bin stat.
    The compressor runs during the freezing cycle and also during the harvest cycle with the hot gas energised via the ice thickness stat.
    3/ Go back to basics, check that the bin stat has continuity, test that you have voltage at the compressor terminals. If you don't then check the continuity of the wiring from the bin stat to the compressor.
    Don't get lost further down the line until you have established the basics, then come back with more information then maybe some smart tech on the site will direct you in the right direction.
    I feel you have lost the plot somewhere down the line, I know you have ordered a new thickness thermostat but this does not STOP the compressor it just opens the hot gas valve and STOPS the pump.
    You can test the compressor operation and the ice production without this stat, but you will not be able to harvest the the ice slab automatically but you could rig a switch to activate the harvest cycle just to observe the rest of the cycle
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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    1/ If you press the Green button does the pump start.?
    If yes then the main switch is OK (if the bin stat is made), if the pump does not start then FIRST check the you have continuity through the bin stat.

    your sentence is not complete after you said FIRST. What first? This forum sucks you cant even edit what you wrote.

    For all I know. The pump does NOT start. When the green switch is pressed. I can only see the pump energized when the BLUE button is also pressed in after the GREEN button is pressed in.

    I'll explain how the cables are hooked up on the switches with a picture.

    green and blue button ice maker

    http://db.tt/oRjcblaL

    I took the internet topinterior picture to compare what I have hooked up as cables.

    Bare with me on this one. I migh have the Green button hooked up fine. But I dont know if the blue button is hooked up right.

    By comparison looks like did hook it up wrong.

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    I have switched the cables back to how the topinterior picture has it hooked up now by comparing the picture side to side. But the

    http://db.tt/dtTNuh03

    I have it back to this now.

    I still dont know how the blue switch works, can someone explain the switch with the numbers?

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    If you are going to be rude and offencive then you are on your own, people here are trying to help you and if you cannot understand that this forum is a group of people with differing experience and skills assisting each other then you are in the wrong place.
    Location, United Kingdom

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    Well I am not being rude at all.

    I am asking you to finish your sentence. Your advice! You said check dot dot FIRST.

    If I read it again I can't understand what you meant. You left a word out what you adviced me to check first.

    Reread what you posted.

    And by all means I need help from you guys.

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    If yes then the main switch is OK (if the bin stat is made), if the pump does not start then FIRST check the you have continuity through the bin stat.

    Or now I see you meant "that" instead of "the".

    Your point 1 I need to wait for the item to arrive!

    I started to check the wiring of the cleaning switch(blue switch)

    Did I attach the cables good?

  18. #18
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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    Look, I have mentioned before the BLUE switch is just for the cleaning cycle.
    It does not have to be pushed in during the ice making cycle.
    The blue switch does this, it turns ON the pump and turns OFF the refrigeration system, therefore with this switch ON the compressor will NOT run.
    Switch on the GREEN switch, test that you have power IN and OUT of the switch, if you do then go to the bin thermostat and check that there is a circuit through the bin thermostat.
    If necessary bridge the terminals on the bin thermostat to prove it is good.
    Remember the BIN THERMOSTAT is the only control that stops the compressor from running, with the exception of the thermal over load on the compressor itself.
    Next question did the machine work prior to all the work you have been doing to it?
    If it did don't start re-wiring it.
    Now please check the bin thermostat as I have said before this control will stop the operation of the compressor and the pump and is where you should test next if you have power in and out of the main switch (green) it is next in line and is the only control in the system to stop all the operations.
    As I told you before the ice thickness thermostat you have ordered does not turn off the compressor it just controls the solenoid valve for the harvest cycle and also the water fill valve during the harvest cycle.
    When you press the BLUE switch this by-passes the bin stat and puts a supply onto the water pump just for the the clean out nothing more.
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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    The reason I start rewiring. Is because the machine blew some fuses of the current box.

    So I might have rewired something to test before. But the machine was working 100% before.

    So I need to start checking the wiring at the green button first. Or the blue button. But you said it is irrelevant to a working ice maker.

    As it turns off the compressor. And switches on the pump.

    I also pointed out. The cutter grid is getting higher then expected voltage. 50V I recalled instead of the 18V required measured with my multimeter.

    Continuity was ok.

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    Well if you said the thickness stat does not stop the compressor from working. I have it detached and still nothing goes on when the Green switch is pressed.
    But this was already the case when the thickness stat was on it and I tried to unplug it but the capillar broke.

    I will need to go check the continuity further. Why the compressor/pump does not start.

    Thanks for your time thinking about this.

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    Once again have you checked that the BIN thermostat is closed, if you look at the back of the machine you will see a knob with a sun and a snow flake on it, this is the bin stat.
    Just to test if it is OK or not, remove the wires and temporarily join them together and then see if the pump and compressor starts.
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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    Ok I'll report later after I try The joining of the cables of the bin stat.

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    Today I started the ice maker on the greenbutton without the ice thickness stat.
    It is removed.

    The water started to pour through into the tank.

    Meaning the solenoid is letting water in.

    I have not done anything else. And also the blue button does not work now. The pump dont start spinning.

    How can I still join on the cables on the thickness stat together?

    You suggested connecting it back? And then try it on joined on?

    What cables do I need to join together?

    The cables that are parallel together? The other one is the ground.

    Let me know to do an experiment tomorrow.
    Last edited by xbox40489; 11-07-2013 at 07:17 AM.

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    i'll post a video on youtube of the test, I can record with my ipod.

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    http://www.mediafire.com/view/?yci0t0fp80nvt6n
    k20 parts list and wiring diagram

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    Guys,

    I received the parcel from Catering Parts UK today and went right ahead to install the thickness thermostat.

    I even added some tubing to the capillar for protection.(see the pictures in the attachment)

    But the result is the same. The compressor does not start at the press of the green button.

    I have shot a video after installing the thickness stat. To show how the icemaker is right now. And how it reacts when the green button is pushed and when the blue button is pushed. I promised to record a video when troubleshooting, here it is:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeqGCYgDChY

    I think I need to do a the cables joining together to test the machine, what color should I join together?

    From the icethickness stat u have the ground. The blue and the red and black button.

    Should I try to join the black/black and blue cable and give it a go?

    Also I got shocked when touching the icemaker surface when the machine is plugged in. This should be the case I think. Can this be related to my problem?

    It means the case is shortcircuited...

    Let me know.

    IMG_2480.jpgIMG_2478.jpg
    Last edited by xbox40489; 08-08-2012 at 08:46 AM.

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E5c7qOVPFr4

    Here is THE rotated video sorry For THE uploaden down one

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    Uploaden = upsidedown

    Damn autocorrect.

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    Quote Originally Posted by B G Scott View Post
    Once again have you checked that the BIN thermostat is closed, if you look at the back of the machine you will see a knob with a sun and a snow flake on it, this is the bin stat.
    Just to test if it is OK or not, remove the wires and temporarily join them together and then see if the pump and compressor starts.
    I needed to take a look at the BIN thermostat. And I also did the Ice thickness thermostat.

    I joined both, the result is still the same. Not working not starting the compressor.

    And the videos are here:

    ice maker ignis blizzard k20 ice thickness thermostat joined together:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYMYVqxU6Ko

    icemaker ignis blizzard k20 Bin thermostat joined on:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAKw-a7QAf8

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    Sorry I had all the video on youtube set on private, which you wont be able to see until i have changed it unlisted. I did that a minute ago to unlisted.

    All of them should be working right now.

    Thanks again.

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    Does no one respond to this thread no more? Or everyone is on summer vacation?

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting still

    Originally Posted by B G Scott View Post
    Once again have you checked that the BIN thermostat is closed, if you look at the back of the machine you will see a knob with a sun and a snow flake on it, this is the bin stat.
    Just to test if it is OK or not, remove the wires and temporarily join them together and then see if the pump and compressor starts.

    ===
    I needed to take a look at the BIN thermostat according to BG Scott. And I also did the Ice thickness thermostat.

    I joined both, the result is still the same. Not working not starting the compressor.

    And the videos are here are the results:

    ice maker ignis blizzard k20 ice thickness thermostat joined together:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYMYVqxU6Ko

    icemaker ignis blizzard k20 Bin thermostat joined on:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAKw-a7QAf8

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    hi sirs,

    please anyone can help me out?

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    Will have a look at ur videos when i get home and see if i can come up with anything - about 4-5hrs

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    post 30 refers to when you got a belt of the casing-youve changed the bin stat,thickness stat, tested the push button, the wiring diagram is a pain in the arse- but here goes,since you move it it doesnt make ice, as there is a bit of weight in lugging the k20 about then are you getting a belt still or was that when you were just bypassing the stat- (both stats are earthed on my diagram ) my diagram shows a glass fuse- test power in and out to prove ok, (glass fuses sometimes appear ok when visually inspected)
    have u took the cover off the comp electrics and test if ur getting 240v onto the klixon and relay on blue and black- also the hot gas solonoid is at the back of the cabinet ,have u knocked a connection off that?- as they usually touch the back access plate.

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting still

    I took out the ice cutter grill and i am going to check it out tomorrow for continiuty!

    If it is nothing wrong with it.

    Then I need to check the voltage on the transformer which gives more volts then required(19V)

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting still

    And if that transformer is busted it is expensive to replace!

    I will think. I need to check other things too but nobody here can help me to make a step by step troubleshooting?|

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting still

    you can see if the cutter grid is faulty- there would be a break in the wire-
    transformer only serves the cutter grid- check the wiring on the switches, -have you checked the relay hasnt fell off the compressor pins-get the wiring diagram printed and enlarged and mark where you have power and follow it through-after all you only moved it so it will prob be a wire that fell off
    Quote Originally Posted by xbox40489 View Post
    I took out the ice cutter grill and i am going to check it out tomorrow for continiuty!

    If it is nothing wrong with it.

    Then I need to check the voltage on the transformer which gives more volts then required(19V)

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting still

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txD0E_2i64o

    Here is the video, sorry for filming it upside, next time i try the sideways again.

    Like you can see I took it out for nothing as it was working properly.

    I will have to check the relays on the compressor yes. But I tried to give the compressor power directly by giving it 220V and it started.

    By the way how did you like my ice thickness install pictures? I think I did a good job.

    So how can I check the relays again on the side of the compressor?

    Should I do this test this guy is doing?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kK9cJtgCXo

    Let me know

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting still

    dont bother checking the relay- if your not gettin power to the relay then the compressor isnt going to start, did you check the hot gas valve at the back to see if its ok

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    you are suggesting replacing the fuse? of just test if it is getting 240V which cables? blue and black?

    i can check it with the multimeter quick if you request that.

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    by the way i am available on skype palm40489 if you really want to be a help!

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    the drawing i have shows 3 internal fuses-listed as no 11, switch off and unplug-set your meter to continuity or so it beeps when probes are touching ,just to prove fuses are ok, 20mm glass fuses can look ok but could be faulty

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting still

    A stupid question...how do I check that gas valve? Where is it located?

    Do you mean the heating element for the evaporator to melt the ice hence getting the slab of ice loose from the evaporator to slide to the ice cutter? And if so what do you want me to check of the hot gas valve?

    I found some dents in the icemaker after the move so it have gotten a shock during moving.

    Which might explain the non functioning?

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    so you want me to turn on the icemaker and test if there is 240V between the black and the blue cable?(A)

    And also to prove the fuses are ok i need to check continuity between the fuse?(B)

    Top Interior11.jpg

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    k20 ignis blizzard continuity test of the fuse (B)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1DDJdlaUNQ

    I did unplug the fuse quick and did a continuity test on the video above.

    The fuse seems oke to me.

    As for the voltage of 240V (A)between the blue wire and the black wire I have to test still.

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting still

    sorry in the uk k20's defrost via a small solonoid valve at the back of the unit sending hot gas through the evap, never seen 1 with an electric heater instead.

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    this should be the same? The capillar is being heated by the electric heater like u say.

    We are talking about the same thing don't worry.

    I meant this:

    coil.png

    What do you want me to test on this again?

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

    yep-thats it the hot gas valve just check that the crimp connectors are on the coil and not touching the casing

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    Re: k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting still

    I also forget to tell you that we have 220V here and it is mostly 60 Hz here in St Maarten.

    But I think it hardly matters in this case. Because if it would be a motor it will spin faster of slower when you have a difference in Hz. For the icemaker the electronics would have to subject to 60 Hz and the 220V it is given.

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