k20 Ignis Blizzard icemaker issue with not starting

[xbox40489]

Hi sirs,

I would like to ask for help for the following issues.

I have moved the k20 ice maker. Ever since I moved it it has not started.

I checked the compressor it works.
I checked the pump it works as well.

The ice thickness thermostat I checked had a leak in the capillar pipes.

So i need to replace this item.

Does this mean it will solve the problem of not starting?

I have the scheme here:

http://db.tt/o45ef8EF

I am going to order the item this week and I would probably test it again in 40 days when I get it.

Let me know if you guys know about how to get this started or troubleshooted.

[r.bartlett]

Wasn't it the Italians who invented spaghetti? they want shooting for all this switching Neutrals they do as it's down right dangerous

Make sure the bin stat is working as it should (closed to run I fink...) as this is what can stop the machine or that the fuse is OK.

Does it run on clean as we would often get the no ice call but the pump should run

[install monkey]

as a temporary measure- link the thickness stat out to prove that the the system makes ice- it wont initiate a harvest cycle as the stat is linked but it prooves the machine will work when the stat is fitted- replacing the stat is tricky as the capillary fixes to the evap plate underneath- may need to remove the cutter grid and water tray to acesss the screw head

[r.bartlett]

as a temporary measure- link the thickness stat out to prove that the the system makes ice- it wont initiate a harvest cycle as the stat is linked but it prooves the machine will work when the stat is fitted- replacing the stat is tricky as the capillary fixes to the evap plate underneath- may need to remove the cutter grid and water tray to acesss the screw head

I haven't worked on one of these for many years but doesn't the comp will run in either open or closed afair

The stat just operates the HGV?

[install monkey]

yep-your right- cant give rep points- the thickness stat operates the hot gas valve- the compressor runs via the push button ,via the klixon and start relay.the wiring on them is a nighmare as you say- switching neutrals,stripy cables, and transformers.cutter grids.paddle switches- unless he means the bin stat capillary is snapped as that is run underneath the ice bin

I haven't worked on one of these for many years but doesn't the comp will run in either open or closed afair

The stat just operates the HGV?

[dan3007]

ive had problems with these not starting before because of a faulty cutting grid m8, check continuity

[xbox40489]

I have this machine transported. From one country to another.

So I would think it has been thrown with. Or it's age is showing.

So as I said.

I witnessed the pump working, by having both buttons pushed in. The green and the blue one.
I connect the circuit for the pump I think. But not the compressor.

The cutter grid is getting hot. So also that is ok. No continuity problems. The only strange thing about the cutter grid is that is giving me more then 18V reading on my multimeter.

Does this issue have to do with the shot thickness thermostat? If I study the scheme I gave.

I have this picture of the topinterior of a ignis k20 models.

This is not my machine but an example. As it looks the same:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j43bvlaulr...20Interior.jpg

A blue and white cable and a brown cable are connected to the K20 K40 Ice Machine 18 Volt Transformer for the Cutter Grid. The brown cable is directly coming from the green switch as you close the circuit by pressing the greenbutton. The brown cable is soldered on the transformer on 220V by default. You can change and solder it to 240V. But my current from the wall reads 219V, which is close enough.

So as a result K20 K40 Ice Machine 18 Volt Transformer for the Cutter Grid give me around 50V instead of the 18V asked as for right now with the shot Ice Thickness Thermostat with it's broken capillar pipe.

Also another thing I noticed with my multimeter for continiuty i s that instead of beeping continiously. It was giving me beeps and pause and beep and pauses when I was checking the blue cable. So say the continuity ofrom the ice thickness thermostat to the fuse box. I cant test this no more now. As I removed the Ice thickness item already. And right now the 220V is not connected. Might give it a try next week when 220V is up.


I can't have this machine working for now, I did not look into what controls what from my scheme. But I have tried as I said to check if all things are working.

As a recap:

The pump works.

K20 K40 ICE MACHINE 18 VOLT TRANSFORMER FOR CUTTER GRID works as well but it is giving me 50V instead of de required 18V.

The compressor works. Plus the fan next to the compressor.

I would think the heating element next to the compressor works as well. I forgot the name of it.

Water Inlet / Fill Valve for Philips K20 40 Ice Machine supposed to work. As when powered it won't let any water inside?

Thermostat - K20/40 Ice Machine Bin Full Sensor Philips, this one I dont know how to test this one. This might be shot too as the machine is stuck on the cycle that it is full. Maybe.

I have ordered my spare part this week. The ice thickness thermostat.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PHILIPS-K2...item1e5b88eee6


I will need to wait for it to arrive from the UK to do more testing. As you can see the item origin.

Could I have ordered from a cheaper source and from the United states or China? I live in St Maarten in the caribbean. I would think anywhere else then the UK would be cheaper.




r.bartlett:

You are right the damn thing looks like pasta spagetti right away. But then again I was happy when it worked before I moved it.

The fuse looks intact. I pull out the fuse and checked it out and the fuse is ok. Does the pump working state that the fuse is oke? I havent studied the scheme.

And the clean cycle works. But I think I havent had it long enough on to see if the inletvalve is working.


install monkey:

I wouldnt know how to link out the thickness stat. Do you mean to Connect the blue with the other wires? I have already taken the stat out of its place. But you can give me pointers how to link this. So I can still test it while the new stat arrives.


I have to do the dirty work to remove the cutter grid and the evaporator. to screw on the new stat when it arrives. Last time I checked it is just screwed onto the evaporator plate. I am not sure no more. I have cleaned this machine in the past.

Also I have seen on the picture above of the top interior. The capillar was protected with a plastic tube. Mine was not protected at all and broke off when I was removing the stat.from its place while troubleshooting.


r.bartlett:


Not sure what HGV means.

install monkey:

Yes as you can read the capillary is snapped. Maybe it was snapped since I moved it. Which explains why the machine didnt start after being transported from country to country.

So I am awaiting the new ice thickness thermostat with a good capillary to see if it relieves this problem.


In the mean time all tips are welcome. If anything I will post when the part arrive in say 6 weeks time?

[B G Scott]

Please note, the BLUE button is the clean out (wash cycle) and if it is pushed IN it will STOP the compressor from running.
Make sure it is NOT pushed in if you are trying to test the ice making cycle.

[xbox40489]

B G Scott:

Ok so for now do you think it is worth testing without the ice thickness thermostat?

I can manage to test if you show me how to hook up the cables. Or link the cables.

I can say for now. The greenbutton pressed in never gave me a starting compressor.

Only when I connect the compressor cables directly to the 220V(black cable and the other brown cable) it will start. Which means the compressor is doing fine.

What else can I try?

[r.bartlett]

B G Scott:

Ok so for now do you think it is worth testing without the ice thickness thermostat?

I can manage to test if you show me how to hook up the cables. Or link the cables.

I can say for now. The greenbutton pressed in never gave me a starting compressor.

Only when I connect the compressor cables directly to the 220V(black cable and the other brown cable) it will start. Which means the compressor is doing fine.

What else can I try?

Follow the diagram and see where the power stops. Remember as we say they switch on the Neturals too...

[xbox40489]

Follow the diagram and see where the power stops. Remember as we say they switch on the Neturals too...

Ok so you want me to press the greenbutton in and go on hunting where the power stops.

I dont understand how I check the switching on neutrals.

My greenswitch might be broke?

The reaction from the greenswitch is that is does not power the pump, no noise nothing.

Is the solenoid the beginning of the problem? Because it has to connect cable 26(blue) to my pump to power it.

It seems not to connect the same wire 26 to the pump motor to start it up!

I am going to investigate it later.

Here was the scheme again:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j43bvlaulr...20Interior.jpg

[B G Scott]

OK lets start at the beginning, try not to look at the whole system break in down into small sections.
1/ If you press the Green button does the pump start.?
If yes then the main switch is OK (if the bin stat is made), if the pump does not start then FIRST check the you have continuity through the bin stat.
2/ the only control on this machine that stops the compressor from running is the bin stat.
The compressor runs during the freezing cycle and also during the harvest cycle with the hot gas energised via the ice thickness stat.
3/ Go back to basics, check that the bin stat has continuity, test that you have voltage at the compressor terminals. If you don't then check the continuity of the wiring from the bin stat to the compressor.
Don't get lost further down the line until you have established the basics, then come back with more information then maybe some smart tech on the site will direct you in the right direction.
I feel you have lost the plot somewhere down the line, I know you have ordered a new thickness thermostat but this does not STOP the compressor it just opens the hot gas valve and STOPS the pump.
You can test the compressor operation and the ice production without this stat, but you will not be able to harvest the the ice slab automatically but you could rig a switch to activate the harvest cycle just to observe the rest of the cycle

[xbox40489]

1/ If you press the Green button does the pump start.?
If yes then the main switch is OK (if the bin stat is made), if the pump does not start then FIRST check the you have continuity through the bin stat.

your sentence is not complete after you said FIRST. What first? This forum sucks you cant even edit what you wrote.

For all I know. The pump does NOT start. When the green switch is pressed. I can only see the pump energized when the BLUE button is also pressed in after the GREEN button is pressed in.

I'll explain how the cables are hooked up on the switches with a picture.

green and blue button ice maker

http://db.tt/oRjcblaL

I took the internet topinterior picture to compare what I have hooked up as cables.

Bare with me on this one. I migh have the Green button hooked up fine. But I dont know if the blue button is hooked up right.

By comparison looks like did hook it up wrong.

[install monkey]

yep-thats it the hot gas valve just check that the crimp connectors are on the coil and not touching the casing

[xbox40489]

I have switched the cables back to how the topinterior picture has it hooked up now by comparing the picture side to side. But the

http://db.tt/dtTNuh03

I have it back to this now.

I still dont know how the blue switch works, can someone explain the switch with the numbers?

[B G Scott]

If you are going to be rude and offencive then you are on your own, people here are trying to help you and if you cannot understand that this forum is a group of people with differing experience and skills assisting each other then you are in the wrong place.

[xbox40489]

If yes then the main switch is OK (if the bin stat is made), if the pump does not start then FIRST check the you have continuity through the bin stat.

Or now I see you meant "that" instead of "the".

Your point 1 I need to wait for the item to arrive!

I started to check the wiring of the cleaning switch(blue switch)

Did I attach the cables good?

[xbox40489]

Well I am not being rude at all.

I am asking you to finish your sentence. Your advice! You said check dot dot FIRST.

If I read it again I can't understand what you meant. You left a word out what you adviced me to check first.

Reread what you posted.

And by all means I need help from you guys.

[install monkey]

looks ok.
right back to the start- when you start the machine up -in ice mode, the wash pump starts,the compressor doesnt,does the condenser fan start?
youve checked the fuses,you are getting 240v to the cutter grid transformer- maybe 19v more but still power there.
youve changed the bin stat,ice thickness stat
does the hot gas solonoid energise?

[B G Scott]

Look, I have mentioned before the BLUE switch is just for the cleaning cycle.
It does not have to be pushed in during the ice making cycle.
The blue switch does this, it turns ON the pump and turns OFF the refrigeration system, therefore with this switch ON the compressor will NOT run.
Switch on the GREEN switch, test that you have power IN and OUT of the switch, if you do then go to the bin thermostat and check that there is a circuit through the bin thermostat.
If necessary bridge the terminals on the bin thermostat to prove it is good.
Remember the BIN THERMOSTAT is the only control that stops the compressor from running, with the exception of the thermal over load on the compressor itself.
Next question did the machine work prior to all the work you have been doing to it?
If it did don't start re-wiring it.
Now please check the bin thermostat as I have said before this control will stop the operation of the compressor and the pump and is where you should test next if you have power in and out of the main switch (green) it is next in line and is the only control in the system to stop all the operations.
As I told you before the ice thickness thermostat you have ordered does not turn off the compressor it just controls the solenoid valve for the harvest cycle and also the water fill valve during the harvest cycle.
When you press the BLUE switch this by-passes the bin stat and puts a supply onto the water pump just for the the clean out nothing more.

[xbox40489]

The reason I start rewiring. Is because the machine blew some fuses of the current box.

So I might have rewired something to test before. But the machine was working 100% before.

So I need to start checking the wiring at the green button first. Or the blue button. But you said it is irrelevant to a working ice maker.

As it turns off the compressor. And switches on the pump.

I also pointed out. The cutter grid is getting higher then expected voltage. 50V I recalled instead of the 18V required measured with my multimeter.

Continuity was ok.

[xbox40489]

Well if you said the thickness stat does not stop the compressor from working. I have it detached and still nothing goes on when the Green switch is pressed.
But this was already the case when the thickness stat was on it and I tried to unplug it but the capillar broke.

I will need to go check the continuity further. Why the compressor/pump does not start.

Thanks for your time thinking about this.

[B G Scott]

Once again have you checked that the BIN thermostat is closed, if you look at the back of the machine you will see a knob with a sun and a snow flake on it, this is the bin stat.
Just to test if it is OK or not, remove the wires and temporarily join them together and then see if the pump and compressor starts.

[xbox40489]

Once again have you checked that the BIN thermostat is closed, if you look at the back of the machine you will see a knob with a sun and a snow flake on it, this is the bin stat.
Just to test if it is OK or not, remove the wires and temporarily join them together and then see if the pump and compressor starts.

I needed to take a look at the BIN thermostat. And I also did the Ice thickness thermostat.

I joined both, the result is still the same. Not working not starting the compressor.

And the videos are here:

ice maker ignis blizzard k20 ice thickness thermostat joined together:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYMYVqxU6Ko

icemaker ignis blizzard k20 Bin thermostat joined on:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAKw-a7QAf8

[xbox40489]

Ok I'll report later after I try The joining of the cables of the bin stat.

[xbox40489]

i'll post a video on youtube of the test, I can record with my ipod.

[xbox40489]

Today I started the ice maker on the greenbutton without the ice thickness stat.
It is removed.

The water started to pour through into the tank.

Meaning the solenoid is letting water in.

I have not done anything else. And also the blue button does not work now. The pump dont start spinning.

How can I still join on the cables on the thickness stat together?

You suggested connecting it back? And then try it on joined on?

What cables do I need to join together?

The cables that are parallel together? The other one is the ground.

Let me know to do an experiment tomorrow.

[install monkey]

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?yci0t0fp80nvt6n
k20 parts list and wiring diagram

[xbox40489]

Guys,

I received the parcel from Catering Parts UK today and went right ahead to install the thickness thermostat.

I even added some tubing to the capillar for protection.(see the pictures in the attachment)

But the result is the same. The compressor does not start at the press of the green button.

I have shot a video after installing the thickness stat. To show how the icemaker is right now. And how it reacts when the green button is pushed and when the blue button is pushed. I promised to record a video when troubleshooting, here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeqGCYgDChY

I think I need to do a the cables joining together to test the machine, what color should I join together?

From the icethickness stat u have the ground. The blue and the red and black button.

Should I try to join the black/black and blue cable and give it a go?

Also I got shocked when touching the icemaker surface when the machine is plugged in. This should be the case I think. Can this be related to my problem?

It means the case is shortcircuited...

Let me know.

IMG_2480.jpgIMG_2478.jpg

[xbox40489]

Uploaden = upsidedown

Damn autocorrect.

[nike123]

This thread is school example of troubleshooting mess.

First you need good electric diagram which is of functional sort and not wiring layout which you found on cover of ice-maker.

Here is proper electric diagram for troubleshooting:

Slika zaslona iz 2012-08-05 08:34:51.jpg

Now, when you got that, you can see that, in order to compressor start, you need to have circuit closed at power switch S5 (pressed), Wash swicth 0 (depresed), ice bin thermostat H9 , and overload relay of compressor G .

Any of those contacts open and you cannot start compressor.
Also, if Ice bin thermostat is open, there is no power to solenoids and fan and pump.

At the beginning of cooling cycle, after you start unit first time without water in it, it will not take water until ice thickness thermostat opens its contacts at temperature of -8 to -15 depending of setting of that thermostat. Compressor fan and water pump is working (on dry) during that time. Only after evaporator reaches temperature between -8 to -15 (after 10-15 min.) and switch over to off position, solenoid valve is energized and ice machine takes its first water in, and hot gas defrost valve is energized, and heating of evaporator starts. After evaporator reaches +2°C, ice thickness thermostat switch on, solenoid valves are de-enrgized, water is no longer getting in, and hot gas valve is closed. Pump is energized and cooling of water starts. That is beginning of first ice making cycle. Compressor is energized whole time until ice bin thermostat calls for cooling.

Therefore, you could bridge wires which goes to ice bin thermostat in order to test proper function of rest of ice-maker.

I personally love simplicity of this ice-maker against Icematic but make sure that is connected to water supply through limescale depurator. My first choice.

[xbox40489]

I didnt know all of this,

So basicly the ice thickness thermostat is on and waits untill it reaches -8° C to -15° C to turn off.

Then basicly the step of filling water comes in and losing up the slab of ice comes in.

Which means the solenoid opens up for the water to come in and the hot gas coil does it's heating to loosen the ice slap up.

When this evaporator reaches +2° C, then this triggers the Thickness Thermostat on. Therefore shutting off the solenoid off which stops the water as well.

The fresh water also flushes out impure water. And get open solenoid means a fresh batch of pure and impure water comes in to make the mix less impure. Because this water was flushed through the drain pipe for that moment the solenoids is on.

Which also closes the hot gas coil.

Then the cycle of making ice comes back in motion.

You can make a flowchart of this. But yeah I get the idea.

How bad is a Icematic?

I got a problem with white ice(unclear ice blocks)! Which means ice forms impurely(white colored). I know that only pure water poured over the evaporator forms you the nice clear ice blocks. And this happens at 0° C and it will only happen to water without any minerals(pure water). As the process repeats because of the pump that pumps the water through the evaporator, layer for layer. It means also that a tank full of water with a lot of minerals is left when the ice slab is done. But this clears up because a new batch of water is introduced to the mix in the tank, which also make the full tank overflow the excess. Making it a fresher batch of water each cycle of ice making.

When you have spot on the evaporator that is super cold under 0° C. Let's say -5° C, mineral full type of water flowing on this spot will form the white ice spot. This is because impure water needs a colder temperature form ice.

This spot is on the right side of the evaporator where the compressor pipe (cold air from the compressor)is attached to the evaporator which is below the evaporator. I guess that spot is too cold below 0°C at least to let mineral full water have the chance to form.

So as a result I get a slab of clear ice and on that spot I always get spot with white colored ice.

Do you have advice for this? It is really not a big deal as for 5% of the ice cubes coming out will be white instead of see through clear ice.

And as for the limescale depurator. As I said I have been filtering my water since I cleaned it with the Everpure set.

The item I ordered is being shipped from the UK to my country tomorrow. So soon it will be back to normal.

[xbox40489]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E5c7qOVPFr4

Here is THE rotated video sorry For THE uploaden down one

[xbox40489]

Sorry I had all the video on youtube set on private, which you wont be able to see until i have changed it unlisted. I did that a minute ago to unlisted.

All of them should be working right now.

Thanks again.

[xbox40489]

Does no one respond to this thread no more? Or everyone is on summer vacation?

[xbox40489]

hi sirs,

please anyone can help me out?

[install monkey]

Will have a look at ur videos when i get home and see if i can come up with anything - about 4-5hrs

[install monkey]

it should cool the water within 5 minutes and produce ice after 45 minutes, then the slab should be 8-10mm thick then slowly turn up the ice thickness stat till it clicks for defrost,make sure the slab clears the flap and lands on the cutter grid- make sure the condenser coil is clean,on the face and within the coil- best thing is compressed air to blast the crap away from inside-a paint brush will only clean the face of the coil

[xbox40489]

you are suggesting replacing the fuse? of just test if it is getting 240V which cables? blue and black?

i can check it with the multimeter quick if you request that.

[install monkey]

the drawing i have shows 3 internal fuses-listed as no 11, switch off and unplug-set your meter to continuity or so it beeps when probes are touching ,just to prove fuses are ok, 20mm glass fuses can look ok but could be faulty

[xbox40489]

k20 ignis blizzard continuity test of the fuse (B)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1DDJdlaUNQ

I did unplug the fuse quick and did a continuity test on the video above.

The fuse seems oke to me.

As for the voltage of 240V (A)between the blue wire and the black wire I have to test still.

[nike123]

Turn the ice thickness thermostat counterclockwise until the end position and check if icemaker goes to ice harvest (defrost) phase. Then, after it is make few thin ice slabs, move thermostat by 5° (angle, not temperature) and wait to make new ice slab. Repeat that until you got desired thickness. Don't go thicker than 1cm.

[xbox40489]

i will give it that try nike123 and it if does not go into defrost cycle then I will wait for the bin full thermostat to come in and retry it.

If anything send the ice thickness thermostat back to the seller in the uk!

But the new one ice thickness thermostat I have a screw that is inside? Does it have to be like this?

Also can someone explain how does this thermostat work?

[nike123]

i will give it that try nike123 and it if does not go into defrost cycle then I will wait for the bin full thermostat to come in and retry it.If anything send the ice thickness thermostat back to the seller in the uk!But the new one ice thickness thermostat I have a screw that is inside? Does it have to be like this?Also can someone explain how does this thermostat work?

You don't need to wait for bin thermostat to be able to troubleshoot further. Bin full thermostat does not have any impact on defrost.

When ice thickness is sufficient and ice thickness thermostat is set to corresponding evaporator temperature, thermostat must switch to OFF position and energise 3way solenoid (and fresh water valve solenoid), and start defrost process.

If it does not do that, with decent ice slab on evaporator, even at lowest thickness setting, than ice thickness thermostat is faulty or its capillary is not sensing evaporator temperature as it should.

Regarding screw, I cannot tell you for now, but today i will going to change one same thermostat, and i will let you know how it should be.

[xbox40489]

so you want me to turn on the icemaker and test if there is 240V between the black and the blue cable?(A)

And also to prove the fuses are ok i need to check continuity between the fuse?(B)

Top Interior11.jpg

[xbox40489]

this should be the same? The capillar is being heated by the electric heater like u say.

We are talking about the same thing don't worry.

I meant this:

coil.png

What do you want me to test on this again?

[xbox40489]

pump dont even start.

the wash pump starts,

-Does not start

the compressor doesnt,

-Compressor does not start.

does the condenser fan start?

Condenser fan does not start.

youve checked the fuses,

Fuses are oke, I unplugged the fuse in the video above and checked for continuity. And it went well.

you are getting 240v to the cutter grid transformer- maybe 19v more but still power there.



youve changed the bin stat,ice thickness stat

-It is changed now, because I broke off the capillarwhen I was checking the Old binstat. But ordered a new one and replaced it all nice and set to go. The pics are above in this threath as well.

does the hot gas solonoid energise?

This I need to check.

I think I will film the machine when I press the green button in for you to see. Give me a minute or 10!

[xbox40489]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UE3PXhHWUc8

The link above shows ignis blizzard k20 and I am testing the 220 V coming in on the transformer with a multimeter.

It is being powered and the next video I show the output of it, which is ok and working fine with a 17.6 V. It asks for 18V but it is ok.

[xbox40489]

http://www.youtube.com/my_videos_edi...id=_iDoJfiQ-wE

ignis blizzard k20 testing the cutter grid with 17.3V( needs to be 18 V but anyways) from the transformer with a multimeter.

I so far have also checked the cutter grid for continuity which is seen on the video above.

Let me know what else to test.

Maybe power between something when the green button is pressed in!

Let me know and I will test it and post a video of it here.

[xbox40489]

does the hot gas solonoid energise?

This one I can check tomorrow.

What color cable i have to put the multimeter pins in between?dsf.jpg

I guess from the picture above I need to put the green button on and put the pins between the Blue and the Black/red cables?

I'll post my results tomorrow in yet another video.