Endocube actually works. I wish I would have thought of it!!!!

[Segei]

I think that it was good campaign to promote useless(to save energy) product.
Optimization of the refrigeration plant operation is the best way to save energy. We can improve condensing pressure, suction pressure, defrosting, reduce refrigeration load by preventing over cooling and etc. However, it can be done without endocube. This is the reason that endocube guys can't explain their energy savings. I have one suggestion to them. You've forgot about major energy saving measure. This is lowering condensing pressure. Very often it can give us up to 50% of total energy savings. Just tell everybody around that you were able to lower condensing, because of endocube. You know how to do that.
I have advice for servicefiter562. Don't believe in magic devices. They just don't exist. Become member of IIAR (international institute ammonia refrigeration). You can get many good technical papers about energy savings in industrial refrigeration.

[mad fridgie]

My concern is not does it do what they or not, But the totally dishonest nature in which it is marketed, and the effect it may have on industry as whole and the effect it may have on futures sales of little black boxes that may have proven and engineered benefits. (what ever they maybe)
Also my concern on the cold chain from sales to home to use. For the product to do as it claims, you must have a larger swing in air temp, if the swing is on the positive side, then surface deterioration must be occurring. This may not been in the short term "at the point of sale", but more in the usable life at home. Either the product has to be used more quickly, or becomes useless, or the home refrigerator need to become colder to compensate for the increased growth that has already occurred. So even if the energy saving were to be made, there would not be any actual saving made, on shifting the point of energy use. Which has absolutely no benefit to the environment.
I wish i knew who this large coldstore was own by. I would love to tell them that they are being hoodwinked,with false sales data, and manipulated performance data.
I am however willing to change my view if someone can show engineering proof of the claims!

[servicefiter562]

Sergei ,First off i am not promoting the cube, i simpley put the information out there for people to discuss. As far as your comments about plant operations all of the items you listed are alreary in place, your right it all was done with out the cube. I dont belive in magic devices thats why i tested it. So with a plant operating with all you have listed plus drives on compressors and condensers plus load shedding adding the cube allowed enhanced operation. End result 10% to 15% reduction plant in plant k.w. Just so you know i am a member of IIAR-20 years / RETA member-20 years /RSES 25 years and all offer great technical support

[Segei]

Sergei ,First off i am not promoting the cube, i simpley put the information out there for people to discuss. As far as your comments about plant operations all of the items you listed are alreary in place, your right it all was done with out the cube. I dont belive in magic devices thats why i tested it. So with a plant operating with all you have listed plus drives on compressors and condensers plus load shedding adding the cube allowed enhanced operation. End result 10% to 15% reduction plant in plant k.w. Just so you know i am a member of IIAR-20 years / RETA member-20 years /RSES 25 years and all offer great technical support

Just don't tell me that endocube reduced rate of frost formation.
One simple example. Assume that during 1 week of operation 1000 kg of moisture went into the freezer through the doors. You should do defrosting to melt the frost and drain 1000 kg of water outside. You claim that endocube helps you get only 100 kg of frost on the coils. Where is going the rest 900 kg? Next week another 900 kg. One way or another you should remove this moisture from the freezer.
"..items you listed are already in place". Optimum condensing pressure for winter operation is 60-70 psig. Are you going to tell me that your plant operated at this condensing pressure all winter? To maximize energy efficiency of the refrigeration plant, you should do 3 steps. First. You should identify energy savings measures. Second. You should know optimum set points of these measures. Third. You should know how to implement these set points. If you done that, items are in place.

[mad fridgie]

Sergei ,First off i am not promoting the cube, i simpley put the information out there for people to discuss. As far as your comments about plant operations all of the items you listed are alreary in place, your right it all was done with out the cube. I dont belive in magic devices thats why i tested it. So with a plant operating with all you have listed plus drives on compressors and condensers plus load shedding adding the cube allowed enhanced operation. End result 10% to 15% reduction plant in plant k.w. Just so you know i am a member of IIAR-20 years / RETA member-20 years /RSES 25 years and all offer great technical support

If you not promoting the cube, send all back bar one. Use a air sensor placed next to the cube, use the cube on/off as reference point, compare to air temp sensor, remove cube, adjust stat (set point and diff) to mimic cube.
On another site, it stated that there was limits on air temp within rooms, so air stats had to be close control, the cube keeps the same close control, so giving the impression that the air temp does not rise. BUT it must.

[Sandro Baptista]

My opinion is that endocube is beneficial to the refrigeration equipment since the time between START/STARTs are enlarged but it not beneficial to the product. Without endocube the surface and depth temperature is lower than with the endocube.

It's good to "cover" the real air fluctuations due to opening doors and defrosts and the client may be happier but the reality is another.

At first sign I confess that it looked a good idea but then after I reflect I have changed my mind.

[mechanicalman]

I think those who have tested the technology have seen results. Those who seems to duck around the idea the technology saying it doesn't, cannot comment unless they test it themselves. It seems many want to come up with their own conclusions. But in my own experience, you cannot make a judgement unless you have satisfied your assumption. So how engineer who are skilled in the industry can make direct comments without doing so is bizzare.

[mad fridgie]

I think those who have tested the technology have seen results. Those who seems to duck around the idea the technology saying it doesn't, cannot comment unless they test it themselves. It seems many want to come up with their own conclusions. But in my own experience, you cannot make a judgement unless you have satisfied your assumption. So how engineer who are skilled in the industry can make direct comments without doing so is bizzare.

Most who have commented have used similar products before, the principle has not changed. So we can comment, so not so bizzare, but before we just ignore it, we also have to give an engineering reasons for our dismissal, of a product and/or concept. This has been given, and to date no engineering based info has been given to counter our claims.

[Sandro Baptista]

I think those who have tested the technology have seen results. Those who seems to duck around the idea the technology saying it doesn't, cannot comment unless they test it themselves. It seems many want to come up with their own conclusions. But in my own experience, you cannot make a judgement unless you have satisfied your assumption. So how engineer who are skilled in the industry can make direct comments without doing so is bizzare.

What is the true of this poduct? Is that it allows the compressor(s) running longer without stop. OKAY, it's logical
Is that it allows the compressor(s) keeping longer without stop. OKAY, it's logical.
That allows to the core product be maintained aprox. at the desired temperature. OKAY, it's logical.

BUT as we approach to the surface product this one will feel a higher temperature. I personally prefer to have a lower surface temperature on the core to achieve a lower temperature on the surface.

With a conventional probe I can up the set point of the controller and increase the differential.

[mad fridgie]

I have to say I do like , the marketing.
No proof given of principle.
How do you know if you have not tried one?
So every refrig engineer, mechanic, tech, just gets one for testing. Regardless if it works or it does not.
HOW MANY MILLIONS OF DOLLARS WOULD HE MAKE.
No need for guarantees as it classed as a trial.
Or even better, he can do the install and the testing, and give you the results you think you want the hear.
Genius! I wish I had the balls, to push such a concept.

[mechanicalman]

Not at all, NO FREE TRIAL offer, just cannot stand the fact other engineers are dragging something down we have had success with. We had the balls to try and only for the fact a customer had heard about it through a magazine in Canada about a company call Pizza Pizza who installed the product in over 100 restaurants, and had an overall 15% energy saving and a 50% reduction in compressor starts. So that is why we tested it on there behalf. And the product doesn't measure core temperatures, but 15mm below the surface in line with food temperature monitoring.

Maybe in six weeks, six months or even six years you will be testing this product or something similar, but at some point your customers will also be looking for food temperature monitoring instead of air temperatures. Please after speaking directly to the company, this product was originally designed as a food monitoring application, and the reduction in compressor starts and energy savings were stumbled upon as a secondary bonus.

"Remember those who bang the drum the loudest get heard"

[mad fridgie]

Not at all, NO FREE TRIAL offer, just cannot stand the fact other engineers are dragging something down we have had success with. We had the balls to try and only for the fact a customer had heard about it through a magazine in Canada about a company call Pizza Pizza who installed the product in over 100 restaurants, and had an overall 15% energy saving and a 50% reduction in compressor starts. So that is why we tested it on there behalf. And the product doesn't measure core temperatures, but 15mm below the surface in line with food temperature monitoring.

Maybe in six weeks, six months or even six years you will be testing this product or something similar, but at some point your customers will also be looking for food temperature monitoring instead of air temperatures. Please after speaking directly to the company, this product was originally designed as a food monitoring application, and the reduction in compressor starts and energy savings were stumbled upon as a secondary bonus.

"Remember those who bang the drum the loudest get heard"

Now you are making some sense, the product is excellent for food temperature monitoring and temp indication dampening, as shown by many who have used all sorts, including a bit of gunk. And many clients have such products installed.
The anti cycling of course is a benefit, but this benefit has been known and used for "O" so many years, in the old days, it was standard to have large diffs on stats and pressure switches, which gave average acceptable core temps. But with the need for close control (real or not), is being implemented, yes short cycling occurs, but nowadays many instruments have anti-cycle times as standard, to reduce, not eliminate some of the starts per hour.
The refrigeration industry in general terms is there to ensure the food quality and life, is kept as and long as possible, If some one could find an exceptable system, that does the same job as refrigeration then they would likely use it.

[mikeref]

There is the area of genetically modified foods, as well as processed meats. Faster ways to grow all food types, then the methods farmers use on livestock to make them produce more milk, or bigger, heavier cattle and pigs, goats whatever, with what they are fed. One scenario leads to another. Are these products we see every day on refrigerated shelves or deep frozen in island freezers, likely to deteriorate more quickly with a wider variation of air temperature, when the thermostat sensor is in one of these endocubes?
What bothers me is the ever-present, and mutating bacteria and viruses. Call me old school with the care i take of my customers livelyhood, but i put my faith in maintaining the best possible method of preservation available today. Precise air temps.
Sea food must be one of the worst products to keep in check. Limited life span and can easily conceal Salmonella, if the coldroom air temperature is not kept within >< temperature. Doesn't matter any more if someone ends up in hospital because a retailer attempted to save some money on running costs of his refrigeration... He's lost a customer or two (hundred) and gone to the wall. Should the retailer/wholesaler go down, who will be next in line?
As "Mad" mentioned, "Close control"
Until there is solid, unquestionable methods of maintaining, or should i say, safely preserving products, then i will continue with the tried and true practice of today....Mike.

[mechanicalman]

Air temperatures rise much faster than food temperatures. but it isn't reading core temperatures. they say 10mm below the surface temperature. BIG difference wouldn't you agree.

[desA]

The price of snake oil in USD/L?

[mechanicalman]

Well it seems we have all sparked enough interest however negative or positive for the company to advertise on this site.