Reclaim units

[ice-cream]

Does anyone know if there is any legal requirement for refrigeration companies to own reclaim units?

What i mean is to actually prove that they are reclaiming gas and not just venting it as I do know of a certain company that doesn't posess a reclaim unit and when gas needs to be 'disposed of' they tend to take the 'open the valve, turn round and whistle for a while whilst covering everything with an innocent looking bottle of nitrogen' approach.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

[chillin out]

Does anyone know if there is any legal requirement for refrigeration companies to own reclaim units?

Yes there is. If you carry gas on the van you must also carry a reclaim and empty bottle.

Chillin

[ice-cream]

Thanks for your reply,
If somebody was to want to rectify this 'threat to the ozone' problem who would they contact?
How much proof would be needed or would it be a matter of the 'men in black' turning up on the spot and 'busting' them there and then?

[Abe]

Yes there is. If you carry gas on the van you must also carry a reclaim and empty bottle.

Chillin

Can you point us to the pertinent legislation, I would assume it came under Environment

[frank]

I've got a suspision that Ice-Cream is Marc in disguise
No offence Ice-Cream

[Latte]

Hi Guys,

This is think will turn out to be one of those lovely Greay area's where it will be difficult to find anything in black and white.
These days with new regulations it is down to engineers to account for reclaimed gas and fill out transfer notes each time you reclaim. I cannot accept that any reputable (spelling check please) would run service vans with gas in WITHOUT a reclaim unit on board. Now as for prossicuting (Spell check again please) i have only heard of a couple of companies being fined for venting.

All said and done it is up to the engineer not to vent, if you don't have a reclaim and there is gas in the system you cannot do the job, dont EVER be tempted to vent, you never know who's watching

BIG BROTHER IS OUT THERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED

Regards

Fatboy

[Derek]

New F gas regs should cover the potential loop hole in Europe. Recovery is 'mandatory' but I suspect any prosecution will be under the Environmental Protection Act or the new Hazardous Waste Regs the latter being a good trial case. I may be wrong but I don't think anyone in the UK has been done for venting under the CFC and HCFC regs (unless the collective know otherwise).

[Abe]

Hi Guys,

This is think will turn out to be one of those lovely Greay area's where it will be difficult to find anything in black and white.
These days with new regulations it is down to engineers to account for reclaimed gas and fill out transfer notes each time you reclaim. I cannot accept that any reputable (spelling check please) would run service vans with gas in WITHOUT a reclaim unit on board. Now as for prossicuting (Spell check again please) i have only heard of a couple of companies being fined for venting.

All said and done it is up to the engineer not to vent, if you don't have a reclaim and there is gas in the system you cannot do the job, dont EVER be tempted to vent, you never know who's watching

BIG BROTHER IS OUT THERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED

Regards

Fatboy

In this country we have the rule of law which prevails.
The way you portray it, is as if this is some tin pot dictatorship

What are the rules?
What is the statute?
What is the precedent?

Who polices the law?

There are many many questions.......and you said , grey areas.

But you cannot prosecute on a grey area.

So let us get to speed with what the law is

Are there any experts out there who deal with this issue???

If youre out there, come aboard and enlighten us, the uninformed

[Latte]

Hi Guys,

While we are talking about the law, does anyone have anything in black and white about the procedure for leak testing systems over 3kg each year.

Define Leak test.

Reclaim, weigh out - weigh in

Fit gauges, check presures - near enough - go over with leak detector

Fit Gauges, Charge looks about right - Done

Obviously, the only proper way to do is is as per first one but obviously this isn't going to happen

Third option, how do you know the system hasn't been overcharged by some cowboys as it has a leak and when you fit gauges enough has gone to look about right.

Leak checking easy enough to so on small systems, integrals, splits ect but what do you do on a large pack system feeding multiple units

I know what i would do, option 2 but if we are going all legal whats the official line

regards

Fatboy

[Abe]

I doubt there are " specifics"

More general concepts.

Global Warming, Environmental impacts are relatively new issues which are now being hurriedly addressed.......

The EC are coming up with Regulations.......

Regulations need no incorporation within UK, law. They are binding within ALL EC states.

I think theres a recent thread which points to one currently going through the system.

[Derek]

Define Leak test.
Responsibility of the company who owns the equipment even if they use a contractor. In the event of a court case the barristers will want to see 'your' procedure.

Reclaim, weigh out - weigh in
Unlinkley plus the new F gas regs have a detail about technically and commercailly fesiable so you would generate more equivalent CO 2 that if you had a small leak plus any recovery (I don't think you mean reclaim?) loses.


Fit gauges, check presures - near enough - go over with leak detector

Monitoring Condition and routine checks is my understanding of the new regs now that the UK have pushed out the 'green party' ammendments.

Fit Gauges, Charge looks about right - Done

Come on will that tell anyone anything (compressible fluid theory?) Next we will be looking at sight glasses.

The regs will 'imply' that owners come up with a leak detection and correction policy that is appropriate. You will only get to test that in court!

BUT

We still have the UK (and of course other states) to define the training requirements under the new regs. That above all will probably dictate what one has to do. So 12 months to go then......and no detail yet......

[Abe]

Derek

Do you know what the " black and white bits are" ??

ie: The legislation, the regulations.........

What are companies abiding to:

Are they aware of the rules

Who disseminates this information?

Whos responsibility is it to raise awareness??

Who polices the industry?

Is "not knowing" a DEFENCE???

[Derek]

Ok will try but I wont defend anyone...

Do you know what the " black and white bits are" ??

The CFC, HFC and proposed F gas regs are all about 20 odd pages and make pretty easy reading so yes we do know what the basics are.
The Environmnetal Protection Act is a bit more complex and like health and safety includes 'duty of care' which is really difficult to get out of.

Actually it all pretty simple.... Don't leak over the design limit (helps if you define what is acceptable), design and build for the lifecycle, maintain, keep records, recover, reclaim, recycle, and declare any import or movement over 1 ton.

Most companies go to court if they don't do what their procedures say they should or if they cut corners in public. First crime is getting caught.

What are companies abiding to:

1. Not much (most)
2. Everything through contractors and employ a good leagl expert. (the big guy's supermarkets etc)
3. Overdoing it (military, goverment etc cause we have the funds)

Are they aware of the rules

In truth no or B&Q would not be trying to sell A/C units and anyone can currently pick up a dumpy of HFC.

Who disseminates this information?

Journal of the EU
Hansard
And probably never a 'legal expert' who just advise...

Whos responsibility is it to raise awareness??

IoR
ACRIB
REFCOM
DTI (who have done a sterling job on the F gas regs with their user group meetings)
Colleges and Universities (who will make a mint on new traing courses?)
Industry Training Centers

Who polices the industry?

HSE
Environment Agency
Local Goverment
Police
Your competitors.....

Is "not knowing" a DEFENCE???

I would normally say never BUT if the law was not clear as in say the recent pensions miss-selling a cases of 'I knew the law existed but it didn't make sence might work'. Prior case search is the only way here unless you want a landmark ruling (£££££££££££££££)

Probably missed a lot here.......