Help with existing ***** System

[OrangeDreams]

Hello RE fellow members,

After countless hours of digging through the internet, I think I may finally be in the right place.


I am currently in the packing business of fresh fruit (citrus-mainly oranges)
Unfortunately, I do not have the luxury of building a new cooling system, and I must use what I have. An old R-12 ***** system...

I've drawn (not to scale-excuse my poor artistic skills) a very simple diagram of how my current system is set up.





My cooler runs hot. With 0 (forklift) activity in n out, we mantain about 42 F.
Ideally, 38 F would be optimal, even at full capacity.



A Couple of questions:
1. What can I do, in a cost effecient manner, to attain colder temperatures?
2. Is this design poor? There are total of 8 "blowers" (not sure if this is the correct name), but 4 of them are drawing air from adjecent locations. Wouldn't it be better if staggered?
3. Will simply replacing the 4 adjecent blowers with 2 larger blowers result in lower temperatures?
4. Open to suggestions!




Please let me know if I can provide any additional information that may be needed.
And many thanks in advance.

[Magoo]

Citrous fruit storage range temps are betwee + 1 > +9'C you are mid range at +6 'C, the critical pint is high humidity at 85 > 90 % so as not dry fruit out and spoil quickly.
The refrigeration system could possbly have evaporator pressure regulators for humidity control. You could check the room control temp and get a tech to lower that to 38'F/ 3.3 'C and adjust the possible evap regulators, as a bit of insurance before your close chiller at night and go home, spray water all over the chiller floor, this will keep humidity high without he risk of stuffing the product at the lower temp. I have done a few kiwi fruit stores where control is at 95 % RH and + 1'C, never had a failure.

[Greengrocer]

Are you sure it's running on R12? That refrigerant was banned / went out of production 17 years ago. Where are you, or your maintenance company, getting top up supplies of R12 from to keep this plant running?

[chemi-cool]

Are you sure it's running on R12? That refrigerant was banned / went out of production 17 years ago. Where are you, or your maintenance company, getting top up supplies of R12 from to keep this plant running?

Just for the record, you can buy right now[if you want] a 40 feet container of R-12 fresh and new.
production never stopped, it just moved to China.

[Greengrocer]

Just for the record, you can buy right now[if you want] a 40 feet container of R-12 fresh and new.
production never stopped, it just moved to China.

Hi Chemi.

I know there is a black market for R12 in some parts of the world but assuming that the USA follows the same "rules" as we do in Europe you should not be able to get hold of R12 legally. It's also like illigal to stock pile R12 & R22 so, how is this plant still running after all these years?

[chemi-cool]

As i have said in the past, I do not believe for one second that refrigerants cause any trouble to our planet.
Its the biggest scam ever and there are many billions of $$ in profit to the people behind it.

There are more refrigerated plants in the far east the the rest of the world and most of them run on r 12 or 22.
In some terms, they are much smarter then the western homo sapience!!

[RANGER1]

As i have said in the past, I do not believe for one second that refrigerants cause any trouble to our planet.
Its the biggest scam ever and there are many billions of $$ in profit to the people behind it.

There are more refrigerated plants in the far east the the rest of the world and most of them run on r 12 or 22.
In some terms, they are much smarter then the western homo sapience!!

We started using Big Blue & nipped it in the bud!

Where would the industry be if it wasn't for all the new refrigerants & work created by it.
That the whole idea & might help ozone if we are lucky ( which by the way shrunk apparently).

As far as the far east being smarter, that a matter of opinion!

[OrangeDreams]

I apologize, it is currently using R22, 750lbs of it.
I got them mixed up..



I guess the right terminology for these "blowers" are condensers.
And apparently, some of these condensers are from 1971!! Older than me!

If I was to replace these, can anyone recommend brand/output/power consumption and perhaps a ball park figure that fits the volume of our cooler??
Would I need to potentially change my existing compressors? [these are relatively new 2 x 100hp])



Thanks in advance once again.

[Magoo]

Hello orange.
no the condensers are out side, the hot end. And the evaporators [ blowers ] in inside the cold end.
You could look at retro-fitting system with a drop in alternative refrigerant. Or change to 404a compressors should be OK with oil changes. Get a technician to advize

[Greengrocer]

After 40 years of service I suspect the entire system is due for a major refurb or replacement. It would be difficult for us to speculate what you might need without having seen the site or know where it is or what sort of building contruction you have. Having said that other members that are more proficient in this area of refrigeration may well venture some additional info.

R22 refrigerant was banned from use in new systems over here in 2004 & went out of production in Jan this year. As such the working life of your systems is pretty much over. Drop in replacement refrigerants are available but these invariably cause a drop in capacity, increased power consumption and there have been reports of increased levels of breakdowns & the work comes with little or no gaurantee. Drop in R22 replacement refrigerants are designed to extend the working life of mechanically sound equipment before it's replaced further down the road. If your systems are 40+ years old I would say they are are well beyond their sell by date & not worth speding any repair money on.

My suggestion would be to invite 3 local refrigeration companies to come in to have a look and make some recommendations. Problem is if you don't give them any sort of definative specification all 3 quotes could be completely different & you will struggle to compare them technically or financially. Alternatively pay a consulting engineer to assess your requirements and have him draw up a specification so local contractors can quote on an "apples for apples" basis (or "orange for orange" basis in your case). As for recommending any makes of equipment & models perhaps some of our US members can offer some suggestions based on your location and the equipment available on your side of the pond.

[mad fridgie]

If in doubt, biff it out, but in your first statement you said do have this option.
Question one; Has this plant ever worked?
If yes, then have you changed anything, more fruit, warmer fruit (not refrigeration changes)
if no, then let look at your refrigeration.
Your present blowers (evaps) at that age are likely to be blocked with years of use. Makes sure that they all clean all the way through, makes sure all the fans are working, clean and blowing in the right direction.
that should give you plenty of work for now, when completed come back and we can then go into it further!