Pool Heat Pump tripping

[jaceace]

Hi all,

Just wondering if someone could please point me in the right direction.... The Pool Heat pump is brand spanking new! Its a 3 phase 50kw unit. Now on cooling the High pressure drops to 0psi and the unit trips out and low pressure is 140psi. Unit is using R407C gas. I have checked that there is water flow( flow switch is activating).

I have a few ideas what could be the problem. I would just like to see if anyone else had any ideas that i might be missing or I have been working to many hours today. The unit does come charged with R407c. Any comments would be greatly appreciated. And if heating mode is selected the unit does not run.

[nike123]

High pressure 0 psi!!!!???
Low pressure 140 psi!!!???

I suggest you first to change hoses to appropriate connections on manifold or on system.

Is this psi or psig?

Do you have any solenoid valve on refrigeration circuit?

What is heat pump make and model#?
What are your assumptions and on what are they based?

[install monkey]

swap ur phases is it a scroll compressor,check the rotation on ur main fan.

[jaceace]

Hi,


Thanks for the reply, yes the pressure is psi. I have also made sure that the phase rotation is correct the fans are blowing in the correct direction. The unit also has a phase protection board in it. The gauges are built onto the unit.

[jaceace]

Hi Nike,

The heat pump model is AS-H170Y, the system has a reversing valve. My assumptions is that I have been given the incorrect high and low pressure and the if the are incorrect that the system is either short on gas. Or the expansion valve is blocked. Apparently the coil iced up on cooling mode? Which has me stumped as I have been told the unit only runs for 2 min and then cuts out. The board displays E4 error which means High or low pressure.

I am assuming from factory the system was not charged with the correct amount of gas. I did not want to add this in my previous question as I wanted to see if anyone else had any other ideas that I had not thought of. There are no solenoid valves in the system other than the solenoid coil for the reversing valve which apparently is working.

Thanks for reading Nike

[install monkey]

do the pressures equalise when its not running high pressure should rise and low pressure should fall. as nike 123 states check your solonoid is opening

[jaceace]

And to add to my situation, the unit was built in China and I have no information on it, The unit was sent to Fiji and I am trying to resolve the issue from Australia. Kinda pulling my hair out here trying to understand the different accents on the phone in Fiji.

[nike123]

Then they are incorrectly connected to circuit or you are reading wrongly high side for what is actually low side.

When I ask ""is it psi or psig", I mean is it absolute or relative pressure.
Absolute is psi and relative is psig.
Relative gauge start with -15 psig (or 30 inHg) and absolute start with 0 psi

[jaceace]

Hi install,

Yes when I requested the selected the heating mode the pressures equalized and the unit just displayed E4.

[nike123]

http://www.alto-air.com.cn/en/ProductsView.asp?id=36

[jaceace]

Hi
Its Relative gauge start with -15 psig (or 30 inHg), He just sent a photo through of the gauge.

[nike123]

He should recover and weight refrigerant, if possible. Then act based on what he find by that.

[jaceace]

Thanks Nike, I thought of that. I am not sure they even have reclaim units in FIJI???? Besides I was hoping I could come up with another solution. But it looks as though I am going to have to fly to FIJI to repair the darn heat pump.

[jaceace]

Also the resort manager is trying to fix it. He seems pretty hands on and i think asking him to reclaim the the gas would be a bit much. Besides from what i gather they would crack the pipe and count how long it took for the gas to escape.

[nike123]

I would love to go to Fiji and repair that for you.

They could recover refrigerant by putting recovery cylinders in ice.
Slow but eventualy all refrigerant will migrate to coldest point.

[jaceace]

Hi Nike,

Just got off the phone with a mate who spent a few months over there, he says they would not have recovery units. The unit only holds 3.5kg of gas. I can fly out tonight but will have to return on friday. Cylinders on ice........ that could take a while. Are you anywhere near Fiji?

[nike123]

Hi Nike,

Are you anywhere near Fiji?

Nope, opposite side of world. I was just kidding.

[Gary]

What are the entering and leaving air temperatures?

What are the entering and leaving water temperatures?

[Gary]

Hi install,

Yes when I requested the selected the heating mode the pressures equalized and the unit just displayed E4.

At what pressure did it equalize?

[Magoo]

Hi jaceace,
I have done a lot of work in Fiji., see if you can contact Kooline Refrig., in Suva. They operate all over Fiji. Has got be cheaper than flying over there yourself.

[jaceace]

What are the entering and leaving air temperatures?

What are the entering and leaving water temperatures?

Hi Gary,

That is a good question, the water temp is 27 in and 27 out, I have managed to solve some errors by fixing the flow switch and removing the solenoid coil. Some how I have reason to believe that someone has (ordered) or (topped up) The gas. And I also have reason to believe that the gas used was R22 and not R407c. However I can not get confirmation. When i ask this question the phone is silenced and all i can hear is guys talking to each other in another language.

The unit says on the label R407c so I am not sure why the have ordered or put the R22 gas in. If this is the case then I guess I am up the creek in a polite way.

[jaceace]

Hello Magoo,

Thanks, i have managed to contact them and get them over to have a look and fiddle. Somehow I have the impression that R22 gas has been put into the unit to top it up instead of R407C. Unless they said they ordered it and I got the information to them before they put the gas in.

[jaceace]

So here is where this is up too..

We found that the flow switch was faulty and fixed that. Then we managed to get the unit running in heating mode without any issues. They wanted it in cooling mode and the unit went into a vacuum on cooling mode. So we removed the solenoid coil and then the unit cooled. After a period of time the unit has now shut down again without reaching temperature.

grrrrrrrr

[mad fridgie]

Are you sure that it actually is cooling model! It may have defrost capability (heating mode), giving the impression of cooling. The chineses not to good with paperwork and quality control. who knows what you have really got!

[Gary]

Are you sure that it actually is cooling model! It may have defrost capability (heating mode), giving the impression of cooling. The chineses not to good with paperwork and quality control. who knows what you have really got!

Good point. Why would there be a reverse mode on a pool heater, other than for defrost purposes?

In normal mode, it would heat the water. In reverse mode, the air coil would defrost. If it doesn't need defrosting, then the controls would not run the system in reverse mode.

[desA]

Could a wise technician have incorrectly piped up the pipework to/from the reversing valve/compressor?

[install monkey]

most swimming pool heat pumps have a solonoid valve that energises to heat the pool water,if the pool temp is satisfied then it heats the air to around 27deg setpoint.the evap coil is in line to remove moisture from the air.
if the manufacturers have supplied a unit with the wrong refrigerant for the machine then surely its up to them to rectify the problem as this is a definate warranty claim

[mad fridgie]

most swimming pool heat pumps have a solonoid valve that energises to heat the pool water,if the pool temp is satisfied then it heats the air to around 27deg setpoint.the evap coil is in line to remove moisture from the air.
if the manufacturers have supplied a unit with the wrong refrigerant for the machine then surely its up to them to rectify the problem as this is a definate warranty claim

Warranty from a chineses supplier, what is that?

[jaceace]

Good point. Why would there be a reverse mode on a pool heater, other than for defrost purposes?

In normal mode, it would heat the water. In reverse mode, the air coil would defrost. If it doesn't need defrosting, then the controls would not run the system in reverse mode.

Hi, I asked them the same question, they put reversing valves in so that places like fiji can chill the water. I just wish they would take them out for us as we do not need chilling here in Australia during Winter.

[jaceace]

Since we import them we have to cover the warranty of the units we sell. Its just a shame this one seems to be a really bad egg in the batch. I am sure I can fix it if it was in front of me. Its a bit hard trying to get them to fix it over the phone.

[jaceace]

Could a wise technician have incorrectly piped up the pipework to/from the reversing valve/compressor?

I don't even want to go there. But it could be possible. I am starting to think the unit is short on gas. Or the pcb board is stuffed.

[jaceace]

Are you sure that it actually is cooling model! It may have defrost capability (heating mode), giving the impression of cooling. The chineses not to good with paperwork and quality control. who knows what you have really got!

Thanks mad fridge, I have requested that they set the controller to cooling only in the control panel, if it is in cooling mode, one would hope the controller is programed correctly and the defrost cycle can not activate. But i have seen a few weird programed pcb boards and keypads.

[jaceace]

By the sounds of it I am going to have to fly over with a few spare parts, hopefully i can get a reclaim unit and some gas while I am there and try fix the issue. For some reason I have the feeling it has something to do with gas pressures. The system is probably under charged or it has been installed in a room without ventilation and is cycling out on head pressure. I managed to get a visa this week so we will see about flights on Monday.

Hopefully the issue will magically fix itself over the weekend

[Bornsplace]

And is your problem fixed with the E4 eror code?
I've an AS-H50Y and have the same problem

[r.bartlett]

And is your problem fixed with the E4 eror code?
I've an AS-H50Y and have the same problem

Throw it away. Alto are complete ****e in my oh so humble opinion