Daikins 5 year warranty void or illeagal ?

[S_Line]

We were a Daikin D1 partner in 2008 and 2009
in 2009 due to the downturn in the economy we were unable to spend the 40k Daikin wanted us too to keep in the D1 Scheme.
So in 2010 we were no longer a D1 Parnter and all units purchased were no longer under a 5 year warranty.

The units purchased in 2008 and 2009 were sold to us under a 5 year warranty, which we passed onto our customers provided regular service work is carried out on them.

We had a fan motor fail on a wall unit, which was purchased in 2009.
Daikin inform me that its no longer in warranty and teh 5 year warranty no longer applies as we are no longer a D1 Partner.


I know Daikin change the rules to suit themselves but is this legal as the units were sold to us originally with ta 5 year warranty.

I am going to we rather alot of grumpy customers on my doorstep, if i write to them to inform them the units are no longer under warranty.

[chillerman2006]

Hi S_line

My understanding would be they have to honour the 5 year warranty

If they will not allow you to now carry out this warranty work, they are having a laugh

They do have another option, send another company that is still D1, but that just not make sense, does it

Let's look at it another way, we go and by a new sony tv from comets and in the purchase price is a 5yr manufactures warranty, if comet went bust, you still have a valid warranty, just instead of going through comets if there is a problem - you go straight to sony and they have to fix or replace

[chillerman2006]

The only way I can see them riggling out of this could be if they say

You are not a D1 dealer so you are no longer authorised to carry out service work to their standards

I think this would be rather limp wristed though as car manufacters can not void a warranty anymore if a non dealer does the work, as long as it is still carried out by qualified personel to their specification

You obviously meet these standards, just not purchasing over 40k of equipment at the moment

[taz24]

.

Would Daikin expect another company who were D1 rated, to go
to the customer and carry out the repair?

The customers equipment is covered for 5 years under the original
agreement, so Daikin must honour that agreement?

taz

.

[r.bartlett]

Daikin warranty is held by the customer not the contractor. The 5 years would be honoured if another D1 did the repairs..

[charlie patt]

if installed in 09 are they not still under the 3 year scheme if your not a d1 you still get 3 year warrantie as far as 5 year goes no doubt there terms and conditions applie, and they will riggle out of it if you aint a d1 they aint interested this is why we dont fit them anymore

[chillerman2006]

as far as 5 year goes no doubt there terms and conditions applie, and they will riggle out of it if you aint a d1 they aint interested this is why we dont fit them anymore

Thats bad annit, customers should sue - Daikin that is

[frank]

When you purchase anything, your contract is with the seller not the manufacturer, so, if the seller, i.e. Comet, goes bust, you are stuffed. If Daikin transferred the warranty to Daikin Europe then you should be OK

The best one to think about is Microsoft. They invented Windows software but do not have any responsibility when it doesn't work as our contract is with the seller. Go figure.

[chillerman2006]

When you purchase anything, your contract is with the seller not the manufacturer, so, if the seller, i.e. Comet, goes bust, you are stuffed. If Daikin transferred the warranty to Daikin Europe then you should be OK

The best one to think about is Microsoft. They invented Windows software but do not have any responsibility when it doesn't work as our contract is with the seller. Go figure.

Hi Frank

I bought a hp printer from pcworld - 3 year extended warranty - just over a year later - stopped working - took it back to pcworld - they said it was not there warranty and it would have to go back to hp - they took the printer - sent it away - 3/4 weeks later got letter from hp and told to collect new printer from pcworld - went back to store with letter - got new printer.

a bit confused but as i understood it at the time the first year was covered by pcworld and remaining 2 by hp

thus me presuming again - same thing comet/sony

microsoft/windows makes sense

also York tried to wriggle out of warranty, similar thing but with a slight twist

they sold unit, customer decided to use another service company, tried to claim warranty, york knocked it back, turned out new service company employed two ex yorkies, york backed down and honoured warranty

would be nice to know what happens if Daikin knock back warranty and customer, if they can take it further

this appears tobe a rather grey area as york were convinced to honour the warranty based on the situation now days with car makers, who have to honour warranty as long as the company serviceing it have done so to manufacters guidelines, regardless of not being a dealer

another example i bought 3year old audi a4 (no warranty) from non dealer, full service history, all audi bar 1, at 55k I blew the gearbox, went to local audi dealer and they estimated £5k to repair, I blew a fuse, got hold of audi uk, tore into them, got my new box all done foc. thankfully

will be interesting to see what goes on with original poster

[chillerman2006]

Thinking about it further

What happens if customers come back to s_line and demand warranty

Does his company have to honour the warranty & take the hit ?

[S_Line]

Ok Have a read at their Policy hich was went to me:

[S_Line]

Thinking about it further

What happens if customers come back to s_line and demand warranty

Does his company have to honour the warranty & take the hit ?

Thats what im concerned about, we installed 100s of systems over the two years we were D1.

HEres their Policy which i have sent to my Solicitor to read also.


Thefollowing sets out the Daikin Airconditioning UK Ltd current five year warrantypolicy.



1.1 Sixty month warranty provides



Sixty (60) months from the date ofinvoice applies to the following Daikin products.



Air Conditioning Equipment

i) Small Split System (matched pairs only).

ii) Sky Air split systems (matched pairs only).

iii) Multi-split systems (standard combinations only).

iv) VRV (all types, standard combinations only).

v) Commercial split (standard combinations only).

vi) Packaged equipment.

vii) Packaged water cooled and air cooled chillers only asshown with a Trade Price in the Daikin UK Ltd Trade Price List.

viii) Chilled water fan coils.

ix) Daikin manufactured accessories



HeatingEquipment

i) Altherma Outdoor Units

ii) Altherma Hydro Box

iii) Altherma domestic hot water cylinder

iv) Daikin manufactured accessories



1.2 Exclusions from the five year policy will havea twelve (12) month or Thirty Six (36) month warranty based on:



a) Twelve (12) months from date of invoiceapplies to the following Daikin products.



i) Mix-match of split systems including fan coils or condensingunits purchased separately.

ii) Special products

iii) Non Daikin manufactured accessories

iv) Spare Parts only

v) Condenserless Water Chillers

vi) Conveni Pack



b) Thirty Six (36) monthsfrom the date of invoice applies to the following Daikin products.



i) Air Purifier

ii) Packaged water cooled and air cooled chillers without a TradePrice in the Daikin UK Ltd Trade Price List.



2.1 Within the sixty (60) month and thirty six (36)month warranty period, the products are guaranteed against manufacturing faultsin material and workmanship. The replacement parts will be supplied free ofcharge, together with a fixed labour allowance, as set out in the followingschedule 5.1, provided the correct procedures are complied with.



2.2 Withinthe twelve (12) month warranty period the products are guaranteed againstmanufacturing faults in material and workmanship. Replacement parts will besupplied free of charge provided the correct procedures are complied with.



Please note:The twelve (12) month warranty policy does not include for any labourallowance.



3.1 Thetwelve (12), thirty six (36) and sixty (60) month warranty policy are subjectto the following conditions.



i) Only products purchased from Daikin Airconditioning UKLtd are eligible.

ii) The Daikin equipment is purchased, installed andcommissioned by an authorised Daikin Airconditioning UK Ltd D1 partner, and inaccordance with the manufacturer's recommendations.

iii) The engineer has attended a Daikin Training course forthe installation of the equipment.

iv) The Daikin equipment is maintained by an authorisedDaikin Airconditioning UK Ltd D1 partner, and in accordance with themanufacturer's recommendations.

v) The engineer has attended a Daikin Training course forthe maintenance of the equipment.

vi) Repeat warranty replacements will be subject toinvestigation by the manufacturer.

vii) Daikin products that are relocated are excluded.

viii) In the event of the Daikin Airconditioning UK Ltd D1partnership being dissolved, all future purchases will be subject to standardwarranty terms and conditions.

ix) Normal wear and tear is excluded.



4.1 Procedure

i) Daikin Airconditioning UK Ltd receive a claim for warrantyreplacement: despatch parts, together with warranty forms, returnsdocumentation and invoice.

ii) The warranty forms must be returned to DaikinAirconditioining UK Ltd within 30 days. Faulty parts must be available forcollection by Daikin Airconditioning UK for up to 60 days.

iii) DaikinAirconditioning UK Ltd receive correctly completed claim form (and faulty partsif required) and then issue the appropriate credit.

iv) Anyclaim submitted thirty (30) days after invoice date WILL NOT be considered forcredit.

v) Any claim notsubmitted in accordance with our procedures WILL NOT be considered for credit.

vi) Paymentfor warranty claims will only be made by credit note.

vii) Any additional cost associated with thereplacement of the actual warranty part (i.e. any cost not itemised in the listof allowances, travel, refrigerant, waiting time, access equipment) will bedisallowed by Daikin Airconditioning UK Ltd.

viii) Throughout the warranty period maintenancerecords must be kept that can be inspected on request.

Daikin D1 Partner 3 and 5 year Warranty

Fixed Labour Allowances

Allowances
General Components

A1
Replacement of components within refrigeration circuit.

£104.00

A2
Repair of internal pipework (Does not include installation pipework)

£56.00

A3
Replacement of air supply fan motor (evaporator and condenser fan motor)

£40.00

A4
Replacement of fan blade

£32.00

A5
Replacement of electrical/electronic components

£32.00

A6
Replacement of condensate drain lift up mechanism

£24.00

A7
Replacement of auto swing louvre motor

£24.00

A8*
Dead on arrival of unit (packaged type)

£80.00

A9*
Dead on arrival of unit (split type)

£144.00

*
Note: A8 & A9 will be single payment if unit is returned without any repairs

Compressors Size

B1
<2.5 HP

£168.00

B2
2.5 HP<5 HP

£200.00

B3
5HP < 10 HP

£300.00

B4
10 HP < 20 HP

£400.00

B5
25 HP < 50 HP

£520.00

B6
50 HP < 100 HP

£720.00

B7
100 HP < 200 HP

£960.00

Please note all ofthe above allowances are itemised at double the non-D1 Partner allowance

[S_Line]

Our engineers have attended all training courses Daikin and MHI and have Level 2 F-Gas and ODS Regulations.
Our engineers spend a total of 2 weeks per year on courses. I have to send the certificates to customers on a CD Rom now as they have so many lol ! ( to many to email)

[r.bartlett]

As I say they will honour the warranty provided it's carried out by a D1

"iv)The Daikin equipment is maintained by an authorised Daikin Airconditioning UK Ltd D1 partner, and in accordance with themanufacturer's recommendations".

No D1 no warranty. It's pretty clear to me at least. We have got warranty from DUK for units which we have not installed no quibble. I was told the warranty is held by the owner not the installer. It's the owner who has to comply with the warranty conditions not the original installer.If he uses a non D1 company he loses the 2 years waranty.

[chillerman2006]

Thats what im concerned about, we installed 100s of systems over the two years we were D1.


iv) The Daikin equipment is maintained by an authorisedDaikin Airconditioning UK Ltd D1 partner, and in accordance with themanufacturer's recommendations.

As r.bartlett, said there's the answer, (possibly 2)

1. you can cover yourself now by informing all the customers concerned about this clause, but if your not buying due to down turn in work why would you want to give up further work by telling your customers to go elsewhere.

2. I'm obviously no solicitor, but surely if it's no longer legal for car manufacturers to void warranties (as long as service is carried out to their guidelines by qualified personel) how can Daikin get away with it ?

S_line, no.1 just aint right, you can not afford to turn away work because of Daikin, this sort of procedure could take a company under and I really hope for your sake I dont end up eating my words here, but surely 1+2 together should be enough for your brief to sort something out.

Even if it means you can not do the warranty work, your obviously up to daikin standard to carry out maintenance, just not hitting there targets and should be allowed to continue.

Another thing I noticed with the daikin pricing and clauses, your probaly have a better profit margin not doing there warranty work and some other D1 will have to take the hit, with time/costs involved with travelling, diagnostics, access towers etc.

I think we all know you dont normally make money from warranty work and it's about time the manufacturers realised YOUR DOING THEM A FAVOUR !

Wish you all the best with this Bud

Chillerman

[r.bartlett]

Hi Frank




also York tried to wriggle out of warranty, similar thing but with a slight twist

they sold unit, customer decided to use another service company, tried to claim warranty, york knocked it back, turned out new service company employed two ex yorkies, york backed down and honoured warranty

Fridgetek?

[chillerman2006]

Fridgetek?

10/10 mate

[frank]

I assume that your guys have been on this course...??

To be honest, I'm not sure such a course exists.... Nice get out clause in the small print though....any comments Abe?

3.1 The twelve (12), thirty six (36) and sixty (60) month warranty policy are subject to the following conditions.

v) The engineer has attended a Daikin Training course for the maintenance of the equipment.

[S_Line]

thank you everyone for your replies, It seems to me i need to inform the owners of the units that have gone wrong, expecting to be covered under the warranty to contact a D1 company ( if there are any left) in our area.
We will of course loose all the service contracts, but hey Thanks Daikin !!