Condemming R22 systems against drop in Refrigerants.

[BigGreenFridge]

Hi
I wen't and priced up an AC Maintenance today and was informed that one of the units needed ripping out and replacing. After inspection it appears it has just lost it's gas?

My point is...

I hear alot of people saying it's not worth Preassure testing, repairing and Regassing an R22 system (with a drop in replacement obviously). People seem to advice total replacement? Now my point is, am I the only person thinking it's a straight forward repair to do the above as opose to the more expensive route of total replacement?

Am I missing something...

Advice please.

[r.bartlett]

Yes you are -buy some R22 PLT it and recharge

Forget the drop ins until they become economically viable (which they aren't likely too...)

[charlie patt]

totally agree with rb but also remember the difference in running costs in elec useage compared to a new unit and if the customer wants it replaced and you fix it and it breaks down next week it makes us very unpopular if i can fix it i always will but if its 12 years old sooner or later its comeing of the wall

[BigGreenFridge]

This system is only about 6 years old I think? I will repair it but just wanted to check I had all my facts straight. Cheers guys.

[r.bartlett]

This system is only about 6 years old I think? I will repair it but just wanted to check I had all my facts straight. Cheers guys.

New systems with R22 were banned in 2000. I am kinda surprised you were not aware of this?

[Fri3Oil System]

There's a lot of R22 still in other installations that can be reclaimed and reused for good when you need to fix a leak and refill.

Even "drop ins" are a mixed of around 97% of HFC's which are not miscible with MO, so I wouldn't switch to them unless you make an oil change.

So, if anyway you need to do an oil change, why not replacing any comodity (R404A, R507, R407C, depending on application) instead? They are cheaper, and nearer to R22 thermodynamic performance.

Regards,

Nando.

[BigGreenFridge]

I am aware R22 systems were banned in 2000 mate. Sorry having a blonde moment when I wrote that. It was obviously another system she was on about when she said about the six years old, just didn't put 2 and 2 together

Nando, That's a good approach you have mate, What factors would I need to consider when swapping a system over from R22 to say R407c? And what Oil would I need to supply to work with R407c?

[install monkey]

r22r is currently £250 for 13kg buy it quick before it goes up again

[Fri3Oil System]

Nando, That's a good approach you have mate, What factors would I need to consider when swapping a system over from R22 to say R407c? And what Oil would I need to supply to work with R407c?

BGF, when retrofitting a R22 installation, you need to get rid of the MO, since new "drop ins" are basically HFC's blends which are not miscible with MO. So, once you have to extract this MO, my suggestion was to switch to a comodity gas, R407C on ACn ie. You need to add POE oil.

We developed a retrofit procedure by which we can improve the performance of the installation with R407C in comparison with the R22 performance. Why? because of the internal cleaning of the circuits, specially the heat exchangers, where residues and dirt are accumulated along the time.
Check here a presentation regarding European Regulations 1005/2009 and E.R. 842/2006 about ODP's elimination and f-gases leakages control respectively. In this presentation you can find our retrofit procedure explained.
www.fri3oilsystem.com/retrofitcase.zip This is a case study of a retrofit, in a York chiller, with 2 circuits, one retrofitted to a "drop in" and the other carried out with our procedure.
Hope it's interesting for you,

Regards,

Nando.

[exotiic]

Can I ask a blonde question in regards to retrofitting and removing the mo? To remove the oil from system would the only way to do so to be to remove the compressor from the unit itself and drain from there? Or is there another, more feasible way to do so?

[old gas bottle]

yep, tip the compressor to get it out [hermitic of corse]then have a look at FX 100,will mix with a good percentige of MO,

[Fri3Oil System]

Can I ask a blonde question in regards to retrofitting and removing the mo? To remove the oil from system would the only way to do so to be to remove the compressor from the unit itself and drain from there? Or is there another, more feasible way to do so?

That's a nice operation to get rid of most of the MO. Although, there are more places where the oil remains which mean a high percentage. If you need to achieve a 3-5% in total, draining the compressor is not normally enough, but it might save some time.

Regards,

Nando.