Repossesing equipment.

[Temprite]

Hello all.
Does anyone know what the law states as far as repossesing equipment for unpaid invoices (obviously this will change from country to country.)

I am sure that it is not legal to just go and take equipment that you have installed.(Although in some cases it should be )

I think sometimes people make a living out of bill dodging.

Thanks.

[US Iceman]

In the US the only way I am familiar with is to use a mechanics lien. This has to be done through the legal system.

It is the same thing as suing someone for compensation.

You cannot take the equipment back. It is on their property and they now own it, so to speak.

By the time you get done with the proceedings and trying to collect the money owed, you find you get a small fraction of the original amount. They always ask to make payments, and you have to keep looking for them to get paid these small amounts.

On the upside, the process is public and let's everyone know what someone else did. If you know what I mean.

I fully understand what you are going through. It happened to me twice. After those two times I started to ask for enough funds up front to cover the basic costs plus a little for aggravation. If they said no, I said good day.

[botrous]

Here , you just take the legal papers to your lawyer , he calls the departement of goverment specialized in those things , and in two days after an alert from the police or they give you your stuff back , or the police will go with you to get your stuff.
And you don't pay them back the ammount that they paid at first , besides if you insist the court can make them pay for the use of the goods comparing it to a second hand one price .
Let say you gave them goods for 1000 USD and they only payed 750 USD and the second hand price is 500 USD , then you will get your goods and go home
they only paid 250 let's say , add the second hand price , that mean 750 USD than if you ask the court , they will make them pay you another 250 USD . . .

Best regards

[chilly]

I always ask for 50% up front. So far i havent been stung but I have turned some work away because they didnt want to pay up front.
Didnt bother me at all, i can handle being quiet, its working for a week and then realizing you a) arnt going to get any money, and b) you still have to pay your suppliers for equipment that has in effect been robbed from you.

[bernard]

Hi

My previous employer always printed on his invoices all goods remain his companies property untill payed for.

On one occasion we were sent into a football club that was relegated to remove celler cooling and other items.

Another occasion a chinese restaurant would not pay for some work an engineer did.So four of us had a slap up meal and refused to pay for it.

Regards Bernard

[tonto]

Temprite it's hard but sometimes people take advantage of people who do the right thing..... A company that I used to work for on our COD customers if they did not pay on the completion of the job then they made us pull the part or parts we installed out.... Dont know how they would go if the customer took action

[rbartlett]

if an item is fixed you have no right to go and collect it.If it's removable then you may.(a plug/lead item is removable )

However you are trespassing and liable to be arrested

Basically you are stuffed.

I use the small claims via the web and usually that gets them moving

https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp

cheers

richard

[Temprite]

Thanks for the comments all.

Basically the law sounds the same everywhere as it is here. I will probably not get anything out of these people, although I will be trying

Botrous
I like the way the law deals with such matters in your country. I wish it was the same here.

The people had a multisplit installed and they are witholding part of the payment because they are claiming that we introduced ants into their house. Strange considering that when the walls were penetrated there was masses of ants inside the wall already, which one of our mechanics pointed this out to them when we installed the unit. There has been a steady stream of lies from them since then. After a bit of research I found that we are not the only people that they have done this to

I spoke to another couple of mechanics who have repossesed stuff before. Their comments were "it is only illegal if they call the police on you".Knowing my luck that is exactly what would happen. I was that angry the other day when I went there for payment that I was seriously considering pulling it out. But my offsider convinced me that it wasn't such a great idea.

Prior to 2 years ago I was a mechanic on wages so chasing up money owing wasn't a concern to me.

[botrous]

I like the way the law deals with such matters in your country. I wish it was the same here.

Wish all the laws in my country were that good. This is one laws that escaped to be a good one for the sake of seller , almost all the laws stands for the buyers . . thanks God . . .
Besides we do wish to have law applications like it's in your countries , especially road laws like driving laws etc .... it's a real mess with those laws here

[Andy W]

I use the small claims via the web and usually that gets them moving

https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp

Thanks for the link, thats more convienient. What has put me off using small claims in the past is the inconvienience and the waste of my valuable time in going to my local court, paying for parking, going through the metal detector, queing up for forms, taking the forms away, filling them in in duplicate, return to court, paying for parking.................. I have only had two non payments in 8 years, I am very lucky that I look agressive and when I chase up a late debt I send three reminders and a couple of phone calls then I am afraid that it is a personal visit and I will not leave without my money or my equipment / spares. Walk in the shop aggressive and loud and they can't wait to get rid of you. As said before, some people just have no intention of paying for your services so that is why I always make clear my charges prior to attending site also stating that you must pay the engineer before he leaves. Installations are payment on completion with no exceptions, if they don't agree well I won't lose sleep if they go else where.

[Abe]

At the end of the day it boils down to a " lack of Contractual Agreements" pre undertaking of work.

If you look at the "small print" of any major company you will find they truly cover their backsides for much of the forseeable factors which could come into play.

The best policy I feel is 50% up front or when you turn up on site. This covers the cost of equipement. 30 percent upon completion. And after you commission and test , fill in the paperwork to record operational details and get your money.

At this stage the ball is still in your court , if customer does not pay 30% dont hand over equipment yet, remove the circuit panel, remote controllers , etc..........so he does not have use of equipment

Once the 30 % is cleared............pass the operational unit over and invoice the balance.

This way you can only lose 20% if customer witholds.

Perhaps the refrigeration industry guys in your area can " club" together and hire a lawyer to draft you a standard contract, which will cover you in all eventualities.


Its a thought........

[Abe]

At this stage Temprite..........pursue a claim in your County Court

It would assist you if u took pictures, etc.

I would advise you not to lose your cool with the defendants.......

Ill try and find some "precedents" in law which appertain to a similar case as yours , which you can use in the hearing stages

As Richard says, there could be elements of tresspass....and if you really do lose it.............assault and battery!!!!

[Temprite]

At this stage Temprite..........pursue a claim in your County Court

It would assist you if u took pictures, etc.

I would advise you not to lose your cool with the defendants.......

Ill try and find some "precedents" in law which appertain to a similar case as yours , which you can use in the hearing stages

As Richard says, there could be elements of tresspass....and if you really do lose it.............assault and battery!!!!

Thanks Aiyub that would be appriecated.

Andy
Some good advice you give their on your methods of debt collection.I am a fairly large person 6'3'' 101kg. I will have to use that to my advantage.

Because we live in a small town area and my offsider has worked here for 35 years. All service work is invoiced on account with terms of 30 days.

We wern't asking for deposits on installations. But since last year we have been asking 30% on anything over 1000 AU.

I still think that this is probably not enough. The area we live in is growing quite quickly and unfortunately along with that come people who will rip you off quite happily. if you allow them to. Once they get your equipment it's too late.

It's been a sharp learning curve for me

[US Iceman]

Hi Temprite,

I think you are on the right track. 30% does seem a little light. Depending on your equipment cost (+ the odds and ends), your labor costs, and overhead, this may still leave you with too much financial exposure.

Aiyub had some very good advice. Contractual language is helpful, but in my experience this only covers you as a last resort. It is still needed, since it means you are serious about your financial dealings however.

The other discussion on pricing structure is the same as I was trying to elaborate on above. If you have to loose something, get your exposure down to something you could live with. Not necessarily like, but the bite would be much smaller.

I'm a decent sized guy also, but beware of perceived intimidation. Some people will come up with anything to justify not paying you, or worse, a counter suit.

One more thing about providing due diligence is as Andy W replied. Send past due invoices regularly, if you can charge interest for late payments add in the maximum, and have your terms printed on the invoices clearly.

If Australian law is anything like the US, when they sign your contract it becomes binding. If they don't read the fine print, shame on them!

In my experience, trust no one unless they have been personal friends. Fast talkers are the one to watch out for. Will make a promise, swear on their mothers grave and promise their first borne child. You have probably meet the type before.

Good luck with this. I know it is painful, and extremely aggravating, but don't give in to them.

[frank]

The people had a multisplit installed and they are witholding part of the payment because they are claiming that we introduced ants into their house.

Would they still be happy to withhold monies if it suddenly started NOT working

Can you get access to "adjust" the charge? I'm sure they would have much frustration in proving that you "interferred" with their equipment

[Temprite]

Would they still be happy to withhold monies if it suddenly started NOT working

Can you get access to "adjust" the charge? I'm sure they would have much frustration in proving that you "interferred" with their equipment

Dont worry,I have already thought long and hard about this subject.

Problem is on this site I may need my army greens on not to get spotted

[Abe]

No need to go " underground"
Come up with some crap like the unit needs servicing, or theres a safty warning or something.....

And march in there..........Bold as Brass!!