Results 1 to 42 of 42
Thread: Help on Calculations
-
24-01-2011, 06:42 AM #1
Help on Calculations
hi
I have a pool (8ft x 16ft x 6ft ) which is filled with water @ 80 deg c. A pump will pump the water out once every 2 hours to another output. The water temperature at the output is 60 deg c.
i am trying to cool the water at the pool from 80 deg c to about 60- 50 deg c by attaching a helical coil at the pump area. A water supply (30 deg c )from nearby cooling tower will be connected to the coil to cool the pool water.
What are the ways to calculate the diameter, length and the number of coils turn to cool the pool? How much flow rate do i need to run the water in the coil?
-
24-01-2011, 06:56 AM #2
-
24-01-2011, 08:26 AM #3
Re: Help on Calculations
if i insist on using the copper coil to cool the pool,how do i calculate the length, diameter and no. coil turn required? Please someone help me on this.
The pool will have a continuous supply of hot water from a hot water tank.
-
24-01-2011, 08:39 AM #4
Re: Help on Calculations
As I mentioned you will need to know the cooling capacity of the cooling tower. You will also need to know which coil you are using. Different coils have different heat transfer abilities, so you would have to consult the spec sheet of a particular type of coil to find this information. By having both of these informations you will then know what length of coil would be required.
-
24-01-2011, 08:42 AM #5
Re: Help on Calculations
so you want to keep the pool at 60C? to be used as when required.
You have a constant flow of hot water entering the pool at 80C.
You have cooling water at 30C.
Your copper coils are they in the pool? or are you talking about a tube in tube?
-
24-01-2011, 09:25 AM #6
Re: Help on Calculations
Why don't you just keep the pool in motion. It will cool sponstaneously. Or pump it across a dry cooler?
-
24-01-2011, 10:30 AM #7
Re: Help on Calculations
80C - 60C ???
I hope that this is not a Swimming Pool
-
24-01-2011, 10:40 AM #8
-
24-01-2011, 02:54 PM #9
Re: Help on Calculations
The hot water source are used to clean surface of steel coils. It is then drain to the pool. So the water will have chemicals and oils in it. A pump will pump the water from the pool to the another end which contains treatment tank and filters. Those treatment tank require the water to be at 40 deg c. The pool is located near a cooling tower. So i am trying to find a cheaper way to cool the temp of the pool with the water from cooling tower. Thanks for all the reply then.
-
24-01-2011, 04:55 PM #10
Re: Help on Calculations
How about making a fountain?]
A pump that will throw the hot water up into the air, temperature difference between the air and the hot water will cool them. you can control the pump speed with frequency converter to achieve the right temp.
-
24-01-2011, 05:02 PM #11
Re: Help on Calculations
I think it's the best and most economical way too. Just increase the convection between water and air.
Nice human made fog in winter time though.
-
25-01-2011, 12:25 AM #12
Re: Help on Calculations
Depends if the chemicals also get aerated and, depending on what they are, it might be a big VOC mess.
-
25-01-2011, 06:25 AM #13
Re: Help on Calculations
So does anyone know how to work the calculations out?
-
25-01-2011, 06:46 AM #14
Re: Help on Calculations
so you want the pool at 40C?
-
25-01-2011, 06:53 AM #15
-
25-01-2011, 07:09 AM #16
hi guys
love this forum
Last edited by frank; 25-01-2011 at 09:02 AM.
-
25-01-2011, 08:39 AM #17
Re: Help on Calculations
Hi attached is a poor drwaing summary.
Thanks
-
25-01-2011, 09:36 AM #18
-
25-01-2011, 09:48 AM #19
Re: Help on Calculations
the flow of hot water entering the pool to be 1.5L/s.
-
25-01-2011, 09:55 AM #20
Re: Help on Calculations
1.5 * 4.2 *30 = 189 Kw.
So you want to but the coil in the pool, so the pool needs to be kept at 50C
So heat transfer has to be based upon 50C on hot side and 30C on the cold side.
Flow into the pool, is not going to give any turbulence within the pool.
heat transfer will be poor.
can you add an air agitor into the bottom of the pool.( a piece of pipe with small holes to make bubbles that cause the water to agitate)
-
25-01-2011, 10:05 AM #21
Re: Help on Calculations
It would be cheaper to cool the 80C water directly before it enters the pool.
-
25-01-2011, 11:45 AM #22
Re: Help on Calculations
Can you break into the line prior to the pool. I would look at a titanium/stainless shell and tube HX similar to Pahlen type swimming pool HX. It would have a pretty low pressure loss on the shell side and it would mean that you could use the pond as a partial settling pond (if you want to get rid of any sediment).
I suspect that the entering pipe would need to be 50mm dia. for the required flow rate (depending on the distance traveled/pressure loss, of course) and an HX for 200kw is an off the shelf item.
-
25-01-2011, 08:45 PM #23
Re: Help on Calculations
You could use the type of heat exchanger shown, but use it as a falling film heat exchanger, directly to your 80C water.
Lets explain
flow is counter flow
water from the cooling tower run in the pipe feed in the bottom, exits the top.
You make a sparge pipe/sparge open tank (pipe cut in half), the same shape as the heat exchanger. The 80C enters the spargeand is didtributed evenenly over the circumeraence of the heat exchanger and the hot water flows on both the inner and outer diameter.
The heat exchanger is mounted over the pool, for the cooled water to drain.
Any shyte gets caught on the heat exchanger, just wash it of with a power hose. Cheap and expandable if you do not get it right first time
-
25-01-2011, 09:06 PM #24
Re: Help on Calculations
The problem is trivial.
Place a pump, filter, heat-exchanger set outside the pool. Draw the 80'C water through the HE, with the 30'C cooling water running counterflow.
Place the dirty fluid inside the tubes (if S&T), or select appropriate PHE materials to suit.
Things you need to state to your suppliers:
1. Hot water : in 80'C, out 50'C, flowrate;
2. Cold water : in 30'C, flowrate.
Problem will balance for the unknowns.Engineering Specialist - Cuprobraze, Nocolok, CD Technology
Rarefied Technologies ( SE Asia )
-
25-01-2011, 09:22 PM #25
Re: Help on Calculations
Run the hot water through the tower and into the pool.
Or run the hot water through a coil in the bottom of the tower, then into the pool, making it an evaporative cooler.
-
25-01-2011, 10:50 PM #26
Re: Help on Calculations
How is the 80C water being transported from the heat source, is it being pumped through a pipe, then you have many options.
is it flow ing through a pipe under its own steam (excuse the pun) gravity feed, or is falling down a slip way (open) also gravity?
-
25-01-2011, 11:39 PM #27
Re: Help on Calculations
Lots of good ideas here but from an ecological point of view and ease of cleaning the detritus, allowing it to settle in the pond means it can be vacuumed up easily or the oils to be separated a little more easily (assuming you intend to do that). Kinda looks like a bit like a sewage settling pond to me.
-
26-01-2011, 02:35 AM #28
Re: Help on Calculations
heat source is falling down a slip way (open) also gravity.
it just flows out from the hot water spray section to the drain which leads to the pool.
I appreciate the help from everyone for all the ideas but at the moment i am limited to the pool area.
-
26-01-2011, 04:46 AM #29
-
26-01-2011, 05:51 AM #30
Re: Help on Calculations
-
26-01-2011, 06:11 AM #31
Re: Help on Calculations
if i insist on using a helical coil, how much length and diameter of the coils required to cool the temperature amount down by 20-30 degree C.
WHat are the calculation be like?
-
26-01-2011, 06:33 AM #32
Re: Help on Calculations
Right you want to install a coil in your pool.
You are not cooling the pool down, you are maintaining a temp in the pool.
Your cooling tower flow rate is 3.3L/s, you want an internal pipe velocity of around 2m/s, there you pipe size.
Your mean water cooling temp is 37C so avergaed TD is 13K(C)
You are around 100watt/m2/C or 1.3kw/m2 (static water in tank)
So you need 145M2 of external pipe surface area.
Up to you
-
26-01-2011, 07:03 AM #33
Re: Help on Calculations
hi Mad fridgie, how did you come up with the calculations, can you sent me the calculations in excel sheets.
-
26-01-2011, 07:18 AM #34
Re: Help on Calculations
You have your heat load
80C-50C= 30C
30* 1.5(l/s) * 4.2
=189kw
Cooling tower water
189/4.2/3.3= 14(ish)
so average water temp in heat exchanger
14/2=7C
30+7
=37C
so average diff equals 50C-37C= 13C
100 watts/m2 * 13
=1300w/m or 1.3kw/m2
189kw/1,3
=145m2 of area required.
A shyte load of pipe. this is why no one is recommending this method.
-
27-01-2011, 06:38 AM #35
-
27-01-2011, 07:01 AM #36
-
28-01-2011, 09:06 AM #37
Re: Help on Calculations
Since a big sum of surface area is required, would it make a difference if i use plate heat exchanger instead of helical coil?
-
28-01-2011, 09:29 AM #38
Re: Help on Calculations
As soon as you flow, your heat transfer is going to improve.
But this is external of the pool,
That being the case, but a small tank on the exit to the slip way, pump through any type of heat exchanger (all methods suggested) It will not be a big heat exchanger with 80C and 30C water entering temperatures,
-
31-01-2011, 04:28 AM #39
Re: Help on Calculations
if i were to use an shell and tube. How am i supposed to determine the size required? Please let me know any reference available.
-
31-01-2011, 07:35 AM #40
Re: Help on Calculations
Download any s&t calculation software, e.g. from www.onda-it.com or any other manufacturer.
-
31-01-2011, 07:50 AM #41
Re: Help on Calculations
AS NNN suggest down load selection software, or just give data to a H/E supplier, shift the risk
-
06-02-2011, 07:45 AM #42
Re: Help on Calculations
No need to write anything here is the link.http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/sw...ing-d_878.html
Follow also the rest links and that would be all. Change a heat capacity of water to the mixture that you have. These formulas are based on heating but temperature difference can be negative so you will have also the coolingBe careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint.
Similar Threads
-
Blast Freezer Heat Load calculations
By smpsmp45 in forum NH3Replies: 5Last Post: 03-04-2010, 10:20 PM -
AHU Calculations
By SUBCONTRACTOR in forum FundamentalsReplies: 20Last Post: 07-11-2009, 04:51 AM -
Cooling Load Calculations
By hamidpia in forum Tools and CalculatorsReplies: 7Last Post: 05-02-2009, 08:57 PM -
Cold Storage Calculations
By HAROON in forum FundamentalsReplies: 7Last Post: 29-03-2007, 10:13 AM -
A/C Calculations
By Latte in forum Air ConditioningReplies: 27Last Post: 03-09-2006, 08:34 PM