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Thread: Zubadan missing power
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06-11-2010, 01:36 PM #1
Zubadan missing power
I have completely new Mitsubishi Zubadan heat Pump, model PUHZ-HRP100YHA2(11,2 kw ) and the inside unit is a simple Hydrobox, with Mitsubishi control unit FTC PAC-IF031B-E,
and for Warm Water a 300L storage tank.
The house is new built with 160 m2 of underfloor heating, 80 in ground floor 80 in first floor.
Since the first day I am noticing unusual problems with the unit, just like it would not have enough power. And the outside temperatures were quite friendly for WP, from 10 till 15 degrees Celsius. For examle I would set on controller to heat the water in Water tank up to 45 celsius. It starts, work ok for some time, soon it looks like it is working very hard, the water gets heated from 25 up to maybe 40, Then it will just stop although the goal temperature was not yet reached. Sometmes error P6 is displayed on the controller and unit stops completely, other times it waits for about 10 minutes ,fan is stopped, then it starts and it continues.
From the manual this is description of P6 error: "Overheating protection (Heating mode)
The units is in 6 minute resume
prevention mode if pipe temperature is
detected as over 70: after the compressor
started. Abnormal if the temperature
of over 70: is detected again within 30") "
Possible reasons:
1 Clogged fi ter (reduced airfl ow)
2 Short cycle of air path
3 Over-load (high temperature)
operation out of the tolerance
range
4 Defective indoor fan motor
• Fan motor is defective.
• Indoor controller board is
defective.
5 Defective outdoor fan control
6 Overcharge of refrigerant
7 Defective refrigerant circuit
(clogs)
8 Bypass circuit of outdoor unit is
defecive
When switching to heat the Underfloor heating it has even bigger problems. It works to certain temperature, like 38. But If I want higher temperature (needed because of underfloor start procedure and prepraration for wooden floor) like 45, then it has big problems and again starts
The company who did initial installation have checked some things, they say everything looks fine. They suspected too much of refrigerant but after cheks said it is OK and doesnt need to be changed..
But I just see a unit that is having troubles at 15 degrees, what will it do in winter where in our area it can be till -20 degrees in winter?
Here is example how unit was struggling when temperature was set to 40..it reached about 35 and then just stopped for at least 10 minutes. Outsife temperature was over 10 Celsius.
go to Utube and add this link /watch?v=Eq5iRGAh75I
Does anybody had similar problems ?
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06-11-2010, 01:40 PM #2
Re: Zubadan missing power
Has the installer checked if there is sufficient refrigerant in the unit, to begin with?
Engineering Specialist - Cuprobraze, Nocolok, CD Technology
Rarefied Technologies ( SE Asia )
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06-11-2010, 01:57 PM #3
Re: Zubadan missing power
Hi there! Just yesterday there was again guy from installing comapany. He opened the outside unit, did some checkes and then said he doesn't need to change it because everything looks fine. Is it possible to tell how much refrigerant is there inside the circuit without actually opening the circle and getting refrigerant out ?
I know that the installing company have made over 30 similar Zubadan installtions this year and according to them others are working just fine. They also contacted the Official Mitsubishi representative and I think they recommended to possibly replece refrigerant.But it could be that because it was Friday the guy didnt't felt like changing refrigerant.
I did also some checking by myself and made a list of State parameters at the time of error.Like Discharge temperature etc.I will attach them shortly
Thanks!
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06-11-2010, 02:09 PM #4
Re: Zubadan missing power
Hera are the data, i got from the unit in maintenance mode. The data from 107 forwards describes temperatures and stat AT the time of Error (P6).
Regards.
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07-11-2010, 11:10 PM #5
Re: Zubadan missing power
U9 can indicate incorrect power supply for instance low voltage
Suggest check power supply voltage is ok & does not drop with unit running.
P6 for outdoor unit connected to water heat exchanger can be due to high condensing temp at low compressor speed.
Suspect low water volume flow rate which make more problem when pumping all around underfloor circuits than when only pumping around shorter domestic hot water cylinder.
Service manual suggest this can be due to water flow problem.
Suggest confirm water circuit flow volume is correct.
The outdoor unit is slowing compressor speed as its targets are achieved so water heating is poor performance.
Then outdoor unit stops to protect from excessive discharge condensing temp.
The sytem may also stop due to water heat exchanger frost protection when in defrost mode due to poor water flow.
Increase water flow & the compressor will ramp up without excessive condensing temp & water heating performance will be improved.
Data indicates discharge super heat ok so suspect not undercharged.
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09-11-2010, 12:27 AM #6
Re: Zubadan missing power
Thanks for many ideas. The guy from install comapny was today again on the visit and apologized that in the inside unit some sensor was wrongly connected (have to get more explanation), After the fix I noticed far better performance, unit could reach 50 degrees also for underfloor heating. I just hope that working with wrongly configured sensor didnt do too much damage.
In case I get more complete explanation, I will add it here.
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26-12-2010, 03:16 PM #7
Re: Zubadan missing power
Hi, I am curious if you got reply from the installation company. Today it is
-3 and windy and the similar Zubadan type has problems with heating the warm water even to 43 C, and because of this we have colder water but moreover the underfloor heating is not working during this period and it is currently 18 C average and in our sleeping room 11 C. If any one has link or information about Zubadan problems enzo. Thanks,
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29-12-2010, 12:06 AM #8
Re: Zubadan missing power
Hi!
I think you have an one of 3 probems
1. wrong sensor position or sensor error on indoor hex (Heat exchanger) unit
2. water circulation problem (the zubadan need the fix flow quantity.. see the manual. do not use a variable speed circulation pump) or clogged water filter, or uunderfloor zone valves are closed .. do you use a hydraulic bypass or anythin?
3. wrong hex position (the smallest tube must bee down)Last edited by csdome; 29-12-2010 at 12:13 AM.
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05-01-2011, 03:32 PM #9
Re: Zubadan missing power
Hi Gaal, no I didn't get any further explanation about problem, just that some sensor was wrongly connected, when this install company were preparing to connect the PAC 31 regulation and that they fixed it.
Gaal, do you get P6 Error on the display, about overherating ? I got it quite often. Getting the P6 error was probably good argument to prove to the company that not everythin is OK. Because on the surface my Zubadan worked quite welll up around 40 degrees for Hot water. Then the outside unit started to become more noisy, it could be heard that it is working vard at 100% and then soon it stopped by itself despite not reaching goal temperature, like 50.
Does your outside unit also just stops, whn it reaches 43 degreeds for hot water ?
I guess it could be also something with sensor, your install company should check it.
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05-01-2011, 03:39 PM #10
Re: Zubadan missing power
Probably it as mainly 1. - wrong sensor position. After that fix now I got through december with warm house around 20 C, although I would prefer even smaller consumption of electricity. It was cold december, average daily temperatures from -8 to -3, and the consumption was around 40 kwh per day.
So I am looking for the small hints, how to improve performace. I was just
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06-01-2011, 10:01 AM #11
Re: Zubadan missing power
40 kw/day for 160 square metre is an average at -8 degrees
try to use lowest flow temperature and select heating eco mode, not use the fix flow temp(heating mode). then you can save so much energy. (you can adjust the heating curve linear between outdoor temperature and flow temperature)
or select on FTC2 dip switch for a "high COP mode" or something like this -see the inside in ftc
or try to insulate yr house.Last edited by csdome; 06-01-2011 at 10:06 AM.
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06-01-2011, 10:36 AM #12
Re: Zubadan missing power
Thanks Csdome. I was already running whole december on Eco mode. I played a bit with the heating curve, most of the time it was something like AT15 - Heating 20; AT -20, Heating 36.
The insulation was just done in november, 15 cm thick styropor. It is true that this is still quite new house, no one is living inside, so there is no additional heating sources like other eletric appliances. But on the other side the Underfloor heating is at the moment without final covering, so I hope that when putting 10mm parquet floors that it wont decrease heating performace too much.
The other idea that I got from some users is to run Heat Pump only during the night when the price of electricity is lower, and switch off the Heat pump during day. I have to try it and see how much the temperature inside house drops, if heatpump doesnt't run.
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06-01-2011, 11:26 AM #13
Re: Zubadan missing power
WOA! 15 cm polistyrene foam! it is good. then sg wrong with ventilating or windows . wit that insulate yr house need 4-5 kw heatin power. that is 20-30 kwh electricity per day . i thing the 10 mm wood floor is a little bit too much for underfloor heating. With this floor you need a long long time to fully heat the concrete uder parquet
the nigt heating is a good idea
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