What should engineer be checking?

[Andy_WSM]

You use the anology of a car in a garage, if you had taken your car to have the brakes fixed on one of your wheels because it wasnt locking on properly yet 2 hours later they had carried out the same investigations as you but no fix was in place how would you feel?

I do wonder why your techie didn't get on and move the unit to another port of the valve while he was there. Seems the obvious thing to do - he even suggested it himself. Another hour or so of labour would have been more palatable had he left the unit working as it should do. It's not like your unit is hard to reach and work on is it? It's ground level if I remember correctly?

[back2space]

I do wonder why your techie didn't get on and move the unit to another port of the valve while he was there. Seems the obvious thing to do - he even suggested it himself. Another hour or so of labour would have been more palatable had he left the unit working as it should do. It's not like your unit is hard to reach and work on is it? It's ground level if I remember correctly?

Yep at ground level! I even went out to get him decafe tea as he didnt drink normal tea!

[Prince Vaillant]

Not Decafe Tea as well! Did he hoover up as he was leaving, and did he pay you for your expert knowledge?

[bigor_2]

I have idea how to make diagnostics by the handmade
To write here or to private message?

[lomb]

This is the funniest post ive read. Is this old school caffeine free engineer who wanted 60 quid for diagnosing it but didnt want to port the unit on this forum out of interest?

[Gingerair]

You should have got him a double espresso, he might have been up for moving the unit to a different port while he was there.....

Caffine is the only thing that keeps me going sometimes...

[nick uk]

out of curiosity what does a employee of a facilities company cost his company taking into account pensions office space etc would the hourly cost approach £60 /hour is this reasonable

[Brian_UK]

Why would infra red thermometers not do the same, it gave me the same results and conclusion?

IR Units
http://www.allqa.com/IR.htm

[back2space]

Not Decafe Tea as well! Did he hoover up as he was leaving, and did he pay you for your expert knowledge?

Obviously that was a joke when I wrote about decafe tea!

[back2space]

out of curiosity what does a employee of a facilities company cost his company taking into account pensions office space etc would the hourly cost approach £60 /hour is this reasonable

haha I doubt it they have turned the HVAC off at the moment as the overnight office space is costing too much to cool on its own by having the main chiller plant running.

TEmps approaching 28C through the night! Awful!

[back2space]

IR Units
http://www.allqa.com/IR.htm

Interesting read Brian, thanks for the link.

Not sure if I am missing something though... you said that it is not a good idea to use infra red?

The engineer came to the same conclusion as me.

The site quotes:

"Monitoring Equipment



You can use your noncontact thermometer to check more than just the temperature of food. You can also evaluate the performance of your equipment and machinery.

• Detect hot spots or leaks by taking sample spot readings of freezers, walk-in coolers, refrigeration lines, compressor motors, electrical, and HVAC equipment."

[Brian_UK]

Yep, fair comment, but bear in mind the size of the tube and the size of the sensing zone.

Also the emissivity of the tube compared with the setting of your unit.

I'm not saying that they don't have their uses but you need to be aware of their inaccuracies.

An example, which may be wrong, infra-red measures the pipe and it shows it is cold, contact thermometer measures the pipe and tells you what the temperature actually is. (over simple, I know)

[back2space]

Yep, fair comment, but bear in mind the size of the tube and the size of the sensing zone.

Also the emissivity of the tube compared with the setting of your unit.

I'm not saying that they don't have their uses but you need to be aware of their inaccuracies.

An example, which may be wrong, infra-red measures the pipe and it shows it is cold, contact thermometer measures the pipe and tells you what the temperature actually is. (over simple, I know)

Yeh totally respect what your saying Brian. Thanks for pointing it out I have seen readings can fluctuate. I also use the masking tape tip on reflective surfaces etc.

[sumsor]

Hi there,

any good engineer would do his own diagnostic.
He found the fault, tried to fix it and after this didn't work he gave you other options to fix it.
Sounds reasonable to me!
Swapping pipes and electrical to the free port shouldn't take too long, why didn't you get him to do it straight away? That would have saved some time, he wouldn't have to come back again.

[Andy_WSM]

Hey Richard, did you decide what to do about this? Going to bother getting it fixed before the Autumn/Winter cold sets in?

[back2space]

I want to get it fixed as I have been told its possible if the fan is not running on one of the units thats turned off that liquid could get back to the compressor.

I have spent so much getting things fixed on this unit, all down to cowboy engineers that havent done it properly in the first place rather than the fault of lg directly. I accept the control strategy is rubbish on the multi split range from LG.

Cost is one issue that may cost to put this right, the engineer says that its prob a bit of swarf in the valve from when the have braised the pipework etc but as per LG the valve is not serviceable and must be replaced.

Other option is to swap pipe work over but if I paid £60 for work not involving any equipment then to have it pumped down etc and then vac tested its gonna be 4 hours work at least... Prob looking at about £300 might as well save that towards getting something decent put in?

[lomb]

Weren't you planning to move as you were in rented accommodation? If so id stop worrying about the value of the system/protecting it from floodback. In your next house do what I did and get single splits. Also get a competent engineer to install or do it yourself if you feel competent and can purchase the correct tools and equipment. Cowboys will not worry too much about system cleanliness, insulation gaps, quality of vacuum or quality of flares.
I guess if you buy from a reputable company they install and give a 3 year warranty so they have a vested interest in putting it in properly.

[lomb]

Having pipes swapped, pumping down etc is not that easy. Maybe if its run for a while the swarf will move on(hopefully).
Should the filter drier not have caught the junk?

[bob007]

This has been great reading!!
Aint this just a peice or crap stuck in the solinoid valve can it not be stripped and cleaned out or blow out. I work on alot of cellar cooling units and if there is going to be a place were swarf will lodge its the solinoid valve..

[back2space]

This has been great reading!!
Aint this just a peice or crap stuck in the solinoid valve can it not be stripped and cleaned out or blow out. I work on alot of cellar cooling units and if there is going to be a place were swarf will lodge its the solinoid valve..

Nope it is in the valve which is inside the unit and is non serviceable as per LG.

[terminator]

I had this on a Daikin multi once. Turned out to be the eev sticking open.

This could either be the same, or the eev getting the wrong command - that may be possible to varify with LG tech. I'd try that first..

[back2space]

I had this on a Daikin multi once. Turned out to be the eev sticking open.

This could either be the same, or the eev getting the wrong command - that may be possible to varify with LG tech. I'd try that first..

From what the engineer has said the valve is not able to close all the way, he changed the units over on the PCB board and the fault remained on the same unit so its not a control issue.

[terminator]

Looks like you're into changing the eev then.

[back2space]

Looks like you're into changing the eev then.

Thats what were looking to do but think we will just change the unit over onto the unused port.

However as ppl have said no point wasting money as will eventually move out of here after maybe another 3/4 yrs and then I can put mitsi in!

[lomb]

Evacuating the system back into the compressor isnt a big job at all. I dont know anything about multisplits but reporting the pipes cant be that hard? especially if you dont add on to existing pipes ie the bad port is furthest away or there is some slack on the pipework. If he charges 30 an hour it probably 4 hours work so 120 .Thats still a bargain, commercial businesses can get charged 500 or more for something like that.

[back2space]

Evacuating the system back into the compressor isnt a big job at all. I dont know anything about multisplits but reporting the pipes cant be that hard? especially if you dont add on to existing pipes ie the bad port is furthest away or there is some slack on the pipework. If he charges 30 an hour it probably 4 hours work so 120 .Thats still a bargain, commercial businesses can get charged 500 or more for something like that.

Its probably not worth it though if the system lasts another 4 yrs I will be moving out and not taking it with me!

[lomb]

Your probably right but will it last 4 years? Reason fridges last so long is they are sealed systems factory made, it all goes pear shaped when the systems have to be assembled onsite where the human element comes into it.
Why 4 years? Property will probably be rock bottom in 2 or 3 years , probably best to start saving for that time, get a good credit rating, it hasn't really hit yet in the UK but will soon.

[back2space]

Your probably right but will it last 4 years? Reason fridges last so long is they are sealed systems factory made, it all goes pear shaped when the systems have to be assembled onsite where the human element comes into it.
Why 4 years? Property will probably be rock bottom in 2 or 3 years , probably best to start saving for that time, get a good credit rating, it hasn't really hit yet in the UK but will soon.

Well I rent at the moment so hope to buy my own place about that time, im 27 nearlly so dont want to be renting too much longer... its dead money.

The unit is about 3 yrs old hopefully it should last longer than that. I was told should last 10 yrs really.

[Prince Vaillant]

Well I rent at the moment so hope to buy my own place about that time, im 27 nearlly

are you Adrian Mole?

[lomb]

... its dead money.

So is interest

[back2space]

So is interest

Im sure many would agree that owning your own house and paying a mortgage is better than renting.

I dont own any part of the place I rent whereas with a house those monthly mortgage each pay for a part of that house

[Quality]

Yep that is the whole idea

[lomb]

Im sure many would agree that owning your own house and paying a mortgage is better than renting.

I dont own any part of the place I rent whereas with a house those monthly mortgage each pay for a part of that house

Depends, of course it depends what part of the cycle you buy in, what interest rates will be, rent cost versus mortgage etc. Id far rather pay 400 in rent than 900 on a mortgage where the extra 500 is paying off the loan and say only 300 is for example.

[back2space]

Depends, of course it depends what part of the cycle you buy in, what interest rates will be, rent cost versus mortgage etc. Id far rather pay 400 in rent than 900 on a mortgage where the extra 500 is paying off the loan and say only 300 is for example.

Yeh but why would you get a mortgage that costs £900 unless the property was worth that and the majority was paying off the loan/interest.

I pay £575 in rent for a 2 bedroom flat but I have friends who pay nearlly £1000 a month to rent a city centre apartment... its madness! THey could own one for that much!

I have another friend who has a beautiful 5 bedroomed house with loft conversion and pays less than me on his mortgage so I guess

Its about being sensible isnt it! Anyway lol were getting

[back2space]

From what the engineer has said the valve is not able to close all the way, he changed the units over on the PCB board and the fault remained on the same unit so its not a control issue.

Right guys!

Had my engineer over to swap over unit B to port D.... solved that problem.

Now the heating performance has improved as less refrigerant going to unit D when it is supposed to be closed/open 10% however a new issue has appeared.

When units A & D (both same style indoor unit) are both at thermostat off and unit C is at thermostat on the coil temps are being weird again. Unit A will have a coil temp of whatever unit C is meaning the fan will stay running even though its not calling for heat. Unit D (newly swapped over) will have a coil temp of 26C and the fan will pretty much stay off all the time. (length distance between unit A&D are about 5metres. If I turn unit A&C to thermostat off and unit D to heating the coil temps will be the same on units A&C (approx 38C) however if I turn C&D to thermosat off and have unit A heating then coil C will match the temperature of the unit at thermostat on but D will be cooler at about 26C.

The ones that run at 38C mean the room overheats

Very odd behaviour but seems unit to EEV D that it runs cooler. Also the connector plug for this EEV D is smaller than A, B & C. so less wires going to the board from the plug.

Now after ive confused you all with that can anyone offer an explanation? We have told LG who seem baffled by it as really the EEV's should all be behaving like EEV D as the EEVs only open about 10% on units that are thermostat off or turned off to avoid overheating of the room, just wondering why all the others apart from D get as hot as the ones that are calling for heat.

Much appreciated and thank you as per usual

[back2space]

LG Technical have said its possible that from all the engineers that have dealt with the unit if it wasnt initially installed properly then its possible there are flakes in the pipework from the brazing because the pipework was never blasted with nitrogen when the first guys fitted it and this could be restricting the EEV's.

I questioned why all the eevs close down in cooling and pipework stays at ambient they state that it will be more noticeable in heating.

They have also advised to check the coil probes however 1 out of the 3 units have had new coil probes a few months ago and that is one of the units that allows the coil to reach the same temperature as the one that is calling for heating.

[terminator]

Might be worth changing the coil probes anyway - after all, it's them that tell the electronics and therefore the eev's what to do.

How many brazes were in the system? - I would not have thought there would be many on your installation.

[back2space]

Might be worth changing the coil probes anyway - after all, it's them that tell the electronics and therefore the eev's what to do.

How many brazes were in the system? - I would not have thought there would be many on your installation.

Not sure, there are a few corners and pipework was joined on for the back room due to the pipe length.

[back2space]

Deleted as new post opened.

[tgbusse]

up that was awesome

[Karl Hofmann]

Oh 'twas on the Monday morning when the 'fridge man came to call, they'd painted over the gas tap, I wasn't getting gas at all.....

If thirty quid an hour is outrageous, then I shudder to think how much you paid for the other bunch of knuckle draggers...