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    Hall of shame.



    Hello all.

    I think we should have an area known as Hall of shame.(Or at least use this thread)

    In this area we should put pictures of the worst refrigeration work that you have come across along with an explanation.

    I have got some pictures that would be a good start but still trying to work out how to post them.



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    Re: Hall of shame.

    This was a unit that I came across once.

    The work was so bad that I had to take a photo of it.

    Unit was serving a liquor coolroom.It was sold to the customer as a reconditioned unit.

    Compressor was relatively new but the condensing unit was at least 20 years old.

    Unit was sitiing out in the open(no cover on it). The capacitor is wrapped in a plastic bag, but still had water sitting in the top of it. Unit had TX valve but condensing unit has no reciever.

    Unit had several leaks but amazingly enough it was still running.

    Client wanted to know what to do. I told him to rip it out and start again.

    This is the kind of work that gives fridgy's a bad name.
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    Re: Hall of shame.

    Well, I don't know, most of the bits seem to be in the right place......
    Brian - Newton Abbot, Devon, UK
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    Re: Hall of shame.

    probably shouldn't admit this but...

    at college the other week i was practising recovering refrigerant and charging the system. i got there and without thinking emptied the gas into the bottle that was already rigged up to the recovery unit, sat by the system.

    when the gauges started to freeze over it was pretty obvious id messed up. i shouted my tutor over and he nearly had a bloody heart attack, turned out the bottle i was using was R22, and that the system had been running on R401A. according to my tutor i'd caused hundreds of pounds worth of damage, and now i'm not allowed to touch refrigerant unless under constant supervision, what a jip

    ...beat that!

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    Re: Hall of shame.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim_Uk_Trainee
    .....without thinking...
    That's the important bit right there
    Brian - Newton Abbot, Devon, UK
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    Re: Hall of shame.

    Paid for my holiday that little job did

    Regards Bernard

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    Re: Hall of shame.

    Came across a mini split, 3.5 HP unit.
    The complaint was that it was only installed a week ago but never really kept the place cool.
    After one hour, the out door unit just stopped and never came back to work till the next morning.

    Compressor was very hot, had to cool it with a hose, checked pressure after it came back to life, an amazing 450psi on the high side! only 33°C, normal.
    Started to suspect air in the system, the refrigerant had a new smell, a bit like R 22 but something else with it, emptied the system, vacuumed and recharged, works fine, cool compressor, happy customer.

    Did you see something like that? I asked the owner, showing at my vacuum pump.

    No, The guy that installed it had an air compressor!!!

    Chemi

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    Re: Hall of shame.

    HI Chemi - cool

    Have seen similer things but not so bad.
    Discharge pressures going up to 300 to 350 Psi.
    Senn guy's connecting different brands of indoors and out doors
    match the capacity but MINUS capillery.(One brand has cap in the outdoor next in the idoor)and complain no cooling and compressor no suction

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    Re: Hall of shame.

    Hello
    One of our guys took 8 hours to install an evaporator in a cold room!after 10 hours he rang t say it just wouldnt cool,i checked the system over and after scratching me head i found the problem,he had left the orifice out of the tev i found it laying in the drip tray! Bloody Kiwi,s
    Skiing,Fishing,Boating,Walking and chilling out in the clean fresh air......oh and a 8 hour days work sometimes!
    Come to New Zealand its great :D

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    Re: Hall of shame.

    Here is one more for review. This happened about 20 years ago, when I was doing service and installations.

    The owner asked for a cost to install a cold room for apple storage. He wanted glass display doors and racks on the front of the cooler for retail sales.

    Did the drawings, layout, and proposal and dropped them off. Several months went by with no notice to start the job. (I had been doing the regular work for many past years for this family).

    One day at the facility I asked "what is the status of the apple cooler?" Found out it was being completed by a part-time refrigeration guy. The other part of his time he was a preacher in a church. His cost was much lower, so he got the job.

    Can you see were this is going??

    The cooler was built with framed up lumber, fiberglass sheets, and styrofoam board (1" thick). No vapor barrier was installed. Interior lights were open incadescent bulbs (not vapor-proof light fixtures). Door lighting was installed with normal fluorescent tubes (no low-temperature ballasts). Door heaters were not wired up (doors frames sweated and were foggy). Air defrost timer was set for 3 hours off (3 times a day). Temperature would not come down (big surprise there).

    The owner asked me to fix it. By the time we got done correcting all of the problems, the total cost was almost double my original cost.

    Some people will believe cost determines the quality. Others think cheaper is saving money. Both (myself and the preacher) promised the owner that our proposals would do what he required. The finall version worked quite well, but it was a painful project for the owner.

    Moral to the story.... It takes money to make a system work properly and it must be installed by qualified people.

    I'm sure everyone has seen these systems. piping runs that sag or are crooked, exposed wiring and cables, and any other poor installation practice you can imagine.

    In my opinion, the cost is not the primary point to use for judging the installation or who to award the project to. It is the workmanship and knowledge that make the system run trouble-free from the initial start-up.

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    Re: Hall of shame.

    Hear this one (I mean read this one )
    Last year a supermarket asked us to ckeck one of their A/Cs we had the call from the guy who monitors the electrical work there , i send a technician to see it , he found the compressor burned out , 5Tones compressor , he writed me the report , i faxed the suppermarket with the price i want to do the job , well i didn't had a reply in 2 weeks , then the phone rings , it was the guy from the suppermarket asking to come and fix the AC , as i arrived to the site i discovered that the compressor was changed a week before , but it knocked out again because the first compressor failure was a windings burn out , the one who changed the compressor didn't bother himself to change the filter driyer , and as i assume to flash and vaccum the system .
    The supermarket payed about twice the price of replacing the compressor . . .

    Money makes a real deal for good work and this should be conducted by a professional with conscience , not only a professional
    Engineering, sciences, math, physics and my brain will generate "not responding " soon

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    Thumbs down Re: Hall of shame.

    Hi all
    Last week I had a back bar unit, returned back to the workshop, with a gas leak ( or should I say without an ounce of refrigerant in it), one of our sub-contractors had been out to the unit and changed the evaporator, which was fair enough. The day later he had to go back to the unit and top it up, then it came back to us. It took me five minutes with a bottle ofn to hear a hiss in one of the condensor coils and I mean it wasn't even a misable leak.

    Neil
    If you can't see it, it can't hurt you.

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    Re: Hall of shame.

    Hi guys , follow this internal link of a thread I posted days ago , but it seems it was posted in the wrong place , and it had replies i didn't delete it and post it here , and i don't want to attach the pics again to not take double the place for it on the sever . . .
    see it and comment it
    http://www.refrigeration-engineer.co...ead.php?t=3088

    Cheers and best regards
    Last edited by botrous; 05-11-2005 at 08:07 PM.
    Engineering, sciences, math, physics and my brain will generate "not responding " soon

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    Re: Hall of shame.

    Most of the poor installations of equipment I have seen are those designed by worthless engineers and consultants , who know how all the figures are suppost to look and calulate , but wouldnt have a clue about servicing. They put equipment in the most stupid places.
    Come time to repair it where are they then.
    I would say a book or collage course wont make you any expert or even proficant.
    a fridgies life is that of never quite understanding.

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    Re: Hall of shame.

    I would say a book or collage course wont make you any expert or even proficant.
    EXACTLY . . . . .
    Engineering, sciences, math, physics and my brain will generate "not responding " soon

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    Re: Hall of shame.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg W
    Most of the poor installations of equipment I have seen are those designed by worthless engineers and consultants , who know how all the figures are suppost to look and calulate , but wouldnt have a clue about servicing. They put equipment in the most stupid places.
    Come time to repair it where are they then.
    I would say a book or collage course wont make you any expert or even proficant.
    Part of the CDM (Construction, Design and Maintenance) regulations in force in the UK address this issue. When you design something you have to design in a service aspect, i.e., you cant put a cassette in a ceiling over an escalator if it is going to be impossible to gain access for sevicing.

    that said, I've never come across a job where anyone has asked -"how do you intend to get access for servicing".
    Not only for our trade but for electricians etc.

    All the CDM regs seem to mean is -" have you submitted your CDM paperwork before you start work on site?" - after that it is rarely mentioned.

    Just another case of someone covering their arse in case something goes wrong
    I'm back on the Pale

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    Re: Hall of shame.

    Frank

    These CDM Regulations........can u point me further where I can download a copy?

    Or tell me where to look

    If we see a " dodgy" install, we can take it further you know!!

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    Re: Hall of shame.

    May this be of any help?

    http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/cis44.pdf

    Chemi

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    Re: Hall of shame.

    Nice link Chemi
    I'm back on the Pale

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    Re: Hall of shame.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie
    Hello
    One of our guys took 8 hours to install an evaporator in a cold room!after 10 hours he rang t say it just wouldnt cool,i checked the system over and after scratching me head i found the problem,he had left the orifice out of the tev i found it laying in the drip tray! Bloody Kiwi,s
    WE call that Plumbing over here

  21. #21
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    Re: Hall of shame.

    Good idea about the "Hall of shame" you got there.Unfortunately,there are way too many "Mickey Mouse Mechanics",as we call them in South Africa,out there.Either that or they need to up the level of training a bit.That's disgusting!!!!

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    Re: Hall of shame.

    As Konrad said South Africa is cowboy country when it comes to refrigeration mechanics. It's shoot & hope for the best.

    I was called out recently to a sight, because the multiplex packs were not working. There were 2 multiplexes, 1 medium temp R22 & 1 low temp 404a. The guy was complaining that the compressors were cycling on & off too quickly & the electronic control i had set up was faulty. After some inspection i found the 1 medium temp cabinet had it's R22 liquid line going into to the cabinet but the suction line from the same cabinet was connected to the common 404a suction line. The blend of ****tail refrigerants was duely released into our atmosphere. There goes them beautiful african sunsets.

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    Re: Hall of shame.

    As Konrad said South Africa is cowboy country when it comes to refrigeration mechanics. It's shoot & hope for the best
    No doubt Marc may have some words to add to this statement
    I'm back on the Pale

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    Re: Hall of shame.

    Quote Originally Posted by frank
    No doubt Marc may have some words to add to this statement
    Frank.

    You took the words out of my mouth

    We were doing some work for a company who had installed a system into a large supermarket chain.

    I was discussing with the owner that we were looking for another mechanic. He informed me to see if I could get a mechanic from South Africa as they were the best.

    I guess there is good and bad everywhere.

    Although this company went belly up shortly afterwards.

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    Re: Hall of shame.

    Hi Marc

    All the best guys have already left the country & all gone elsewhere in the world. The guys don't get paid well here. So maybe those South African boys down under aren't so bad after all.

  26. #26
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    Re: Hall of shame.

    Just so you know Mark,I am an South African citizen,but working in the UK.You might have misunderstood my statement I made.I was commenting on the crappy job the technician did on the photo I saw.No hard feelings though.I thank all the other members for your comments and replies.You were correct in your statements,the level of training is good in South Africa and South Africans come highly recommended.Keep it up boys!!!!!

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    Re: Hall of shame.

    Heres a good one. We sold a couple of monoblock thru- the - wall packaged coldroom units to a East Coast of Scotland refrigeration company whose customer was on a West coast island. The customer decided to do his own installation as it merely meant cutting a hole in the wall and pushing the unit into it. They phoned a few days later complaining that the rooom was getting very hot! Yes - you guessed it; they installed them back to front with the condensing unit section INSIDE and the evaporator section OUTSIDE.

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    Re: Hall of shame.

    Hi Guys
    I've a good one while installing a Mitsu split yeaars ago in a shopping Center in Dublin. The owner of the shop next door asked me to have a look at his A/c install. I went in and there was a young apprentice standing in front of a Condensing unit that he had hung in the shop.

    His supervisor had gone to do a service call and instructed him to hang the unit. The poor guy was beside himself when I explained the situation to him and being the nice guy that I am I helped him take the condenser down and carry it to the roof and showed him how to hang the indoor.

    Often wondered what would have happened if I had'nt been there. im sure it would have been resolved but someone would have got it in the neck for the mess.

    By the way it was (to paraphrase members of this site )A ****ing Diakin split.

    T

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    Re: Hall of shame.

    I remember a time long ago (about 8 years ago) when my mom brought her car to a professional auto repair shop to get the A/C compressor replaced. The mechanics just cut the pipes and let the gas out, making a lot of fog in the process! IIRC, that's supposed to be illegal, but the shop has done that for quite a while. Of course, those cans of "freeze spray" used for electronics troubleshooting are just aerosol cans filled with refrigerant. Maybe that law only applies to some refrigerants.

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    Re: Hall of shame.

    got called to a heiair (sp?) system in a warehouse once. there were to identical units that had been installed 2 weeks previous. One system was operating fine the other just kept cutting out. After replacing the whole condensor went away think it was fine. the system worked fine for a week, then same problem. Was told to change the condensor again so we did. worked fine for a week then the same thing happened again.Now 3 compressors have gone down.

    By this point me, the bloke i work with and the customer are getting pi**ed off. And so are management. Whilst pottering about in the fusebord cupbord i realise that the yellow phase coming into the warehose is extreamly hot and theres a smell of burning.

    After investigation phase mains fuse and burned out.

    so after getting through 4 condensors the customer was unhappy to find out that it was nothing to do with what the AC engineers had done but his fuse that had blown. Needless to say he wasn't happy with the bill.

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    Re: Hall of shame.

    You mean 4 Compressors?

    Reminds me of a Chinese Proverb....

    He who makes a mistake once.......... its ok
    He who makes the same mistake again............

    Well, figure........
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    Thumbs up Re: Hall of shame.

    Hi there,

    As you may know I am from IRAN.
    The refrigeration industry has a huge market here but also there are too many problems due to lack of knowledge.

    1- I have visited an AC system without receiver, without sight glass, without solenoid valve, without TEV, without filter. A small nozzle was installed which supposed to act as a pressure reducing device!!!??

    2- I have been called to visit a blast freezer (-40°C) with double stage compressors. The piping was done like a water plumbing!! the sub-cooler was installed horizontally. System oil was trapped in the evaporator. There is another compressor as stand-by with the same evaporator and condenser. There was no check valve on the discharge lines. No oil equilization line for the compressors!!

    I have lots of stories to tell but as you call it, it is a shame
    Even Einstein Asked Questions

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    Re: Hall of shame.

    One of the worst I have heard was not discovered by me, but by someone I work with.

    Approx 15 years ago.
    He was called to a pub to check out the refrigeration system there mainly the system that serves the temprites.

    Publican was complaining about the amount of gas that was going into the systems.

    When he got there the problem was apparent. There was a large leak that the last mechanic couldnt find, and to compensate this there was a large refrigerant bottle connected to the low side of the system with a gauge hose and the hand valve cracked ever so slightly. He told me he would never have believed it unless he had seen it with his own eyes.

    Guess What?
    It was R12!!!!!!

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    Re: Hall of shame.

    The worst case of bad practice I ever found was about 8 years ago when I was called out at about 10pm to Lincon area, well over a 1 1/2 hours drive away. The customer was beside himself, because his loaded vehicle didn’t cool on standby. The last thing I wanted to find was a seized compressor, but worse was to come. The unit had been visited two weeks earlier by another engineer and the contactor had been faulted as
    in-operational. As the “engineer” hadn’t got a suitable contactor, he had bridged the contactor and overload out with three bits of wire! He told the customer to keep an eye on the unit and switch it off at the mains when it got to set point. Well it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to guess that after the compressor seized it took the mains motor with it. So after some time I finally changed the Standby Compressor, the mains motor, the contactor and overload. I left a very happy customer at 3am, the following morning. The engineer in question left not long after that!

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    Re: Hall of shame.

    I can't help but post to this thread with the worst one I've ever heard of. I've got heaps I could recount that I've seen but this is the absolute worst.

    This from a guy who is sadly still working in the industry.

    A mate went to a callout on an upright display freezer that had just been installed and wasn't working properly. I can't remember the fault but it was likely due to the installation. While he was there he isolated the power to work on the controls but realised after nearly blowing himslf up that he still had power on the control circuit.

    He traced back the wiring to reveal that the unit had TWO 10 amp supply cables. It seems the defrost heaters drew about 18 amps so the "mechanic" decided to overcome the problem of having one ten amp gpo supplying the fridge he'd put on a second 10 amp cable in to cope with the current.

    My mind is blown by the idiocy not only of having two supplies to isolate for safety but the obvious fault of having a LIVE three pin plug when you unplugged one of the two supplies.

    Sadly I didn't do the job or I would have had the authorities there to witness it.

  36. #36
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    Re: Hall of shame.

    HI guy's

    Back in early this year I fitted a small Daikin wall mount.

    The customer said "just put the condenser on that wall nothing ever comes down this sideroad"
    I said "sure I'll put it at 2 metres to stop the kids messing with it"

    2 weeks later "err something seems to have hit the a/c can you come and fix it-oh and put it up another metre nothing will hit it then"

    So I did -and something did!! So I came back and re-fixed it for the second time



    On Monday we get another call "Hmm somethings really smacked it this time"

    This is what I found today

    cheers

    richard
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Re: Hall of shame.

    G'day Richard.

    How the hell did it end up like that?

  38. #38
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    Re: Hall of shame.

    Quote Originally Posted by Temprite
    G'day Richard.

    How the hell did it end up like that?

    Waddja mean -I thought I did a good job!!

    my re-install aside it was hit three times with a lorry..(twice by the same company!!)

    cheers

    richard

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    Re: Hall of shame.

    My mate went to a job recently where his company had taken over a service contract on A/C splits that'd been installed about 18 months previously but 2 had never worked from new. He found that the when the 2 problem units were installed the liquid lines had been crossed-over between them inside a ceiling void.
    chill out it's only a fridge

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    Re: Hall of shame.

    I read somewhere that someone is looking for a minisplit engineer, i think the chap that did this may suit the position.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Takes a licking, keeps on ticking.

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    Re: Hall of shame.

    Been working on my first Foster Room last couple of days, have always been a Williams man, but this is first for Foster.

    Ignore the date on my digital camera. Can never get round to setting it properly
    Last edited by Abe; 11-01-2006 at 10:34 AM.
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    Re: Hall of shame.

    I think I came across one today that beats these all into a ****ed hat. I got called to a cellar cooler that apparently hasn't worked properly since being installed by a local 'fridge engineer' a couple of weeks ago. Walked into the cellar to be confronted by, no, surely not, yep -the condensing unit was mounted on the wall next to the evap. with interconnecting pipework in 15 & 22mm copper water pipe. Not just that but the condenser itself was hard up against the wall so it was constantly tripping on HP
    Noah had to leave the dinosaurs behind as they would've sunk the boat.

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    Re: Hall of shame.

    A picture would be great Phil
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    Re: Hall of shame.

    Quote Originally Posted by slingblade
    I read somewhere that someone is looking for a minisplit engineer, i think the chap that did this may suit the position.
    Best picture ever.
    John K.

  45. #45
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    Re: Hall of shame.

    I have a flash back as well in my mind way back 1984, I got an experienced with a refrigerator. the user call me for his refrigerator serviced by a cowboy technician. His ref evaporator accidentally chip by a pointed sharp metal. The cowboy technician welded the evap used an epoxy glue. After a couple of days the customer call me, his Ref not working and the compressor tripping. When I removed the compressor to check the oil, my goshhh wath a milky coulor.. (Water and oil mixed). Adviced to the customer to replace the evaporator and flushing the system, replace the filterdrier. The customer said they rather buy new Refrigerator. GOOD idea..

    rudi
    mustardseed:) :) :)

  46. #46
    rbartlett's Avatar
    rbartlett Guest

    Re: Hall of shame.

    the epoxy glue you speak of (usually a kawasaki green)is a well tried and tested method of repairing plate evaparators in domestic fridges. so personally I wouldn't call him a cowboy for that.

    maybe he should have vacuumed it out for a month before re-charging it but hey that costs and the owner probably didn't want to pay .....

    cheers

    richard

  47. #47
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    Re: Hall of shame.

    These involve me as a green 18 yr. old & working for an environmental test chamber company (who shall remain nameless). I'd had only rudimentary training in the workings of a fridge system from a service engineer working for the same company (didn't go to college for City & Guilds until the age of 22). And I was sent out to service cascade refrigeration.
    The first was when I was trying to charge the 2nd stage of a system with R13. I noticed that the charging cylinder was getting hot. I shut the cylinder off & told my mentor about it later in the day. After he'd calmed down he expalined that I'd been trying to charge the sysyem via the compressor discharge service valve & was lucky to be still alive.
    The second was when I was doing routine maintenance on another chamber & noticed that the liquid-line sight glass was bubbling. Must be low on gas thought I, so I started to fill with R502. The sight glass didn't clear, so I kept filling. Bearing in mind this was a bench-top chamber ten minutes passed before there was an almighty sound of escaping gas & the whole lab filled with oil vapour. My mentor later told me it had a blocked drier.
    Number three was when I was checking 3 phase, phase to phase with a meter borrowed from my mentor. Except that I had forgotten to switch the meter to VAC from ohms. The flash almost blinded me & I had to hand the meter back with the ends of the test prongs blown clean off
    Noah had to leave the dinosaurs behind as they would've sunk the boat.

  48. #48
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    Re: Hall of shame.

    Hi Phil,

    You are one lucky sod..

    It`s YOUR life and health so take it upon yourself to get proper information and training.

    Im not saying you are dumb, but there is a lot to learn. Everyone (marco included) learns something new every day.

    Think about the job in hand before you pick up any tools or meters (if you have any that are not blown apart LOL).

    Do not learn by your mistakes , learn before the event happens.

    Chillin
    IF AT FIRST YOU DON`T SUCCEED.
    DESTROY ALL EVIDENCE THAT YOU TRIED!
    and go get a cuppa

  49. #49
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    Re: Hall of shame.

    Rechard,
    The cowboy tech I mentioned used all purposed epoxy glue a grey colour one. I experienced for the situation when my one of McQuay 650 Tons centrifugal chiller r134a evaporator tube leaks in the middle east, Kuwait. After we replaced 12 tubes, and vacuumed it almost 2 weeks 24 hours a day. We used/ consummed 350 litters of vacuum oil. What a nightmare in my part but added to my job acheivement.

    rudi
    mustardseed:) :) :)

  50. #50
    rbartlett's Avatar
    rbartlett Guest

    Re: Hall of shame.

    Quote Originally Posted by rpbuenaflor
    Rechard,
    The cowboy tech I mentioned used all purposed epoxy glue a grey colour one. I experienced for the situation when my one of McQuay 650 Tons centrifugal chiller r134a evaporator tube leaks in the middle east, Kuwait. After we replaced 12 tubes, and vacuumed it almost 2 weeks 24 hours a day. We used/ consummed 350 litters of vacuum oil. What a nightmare in my part but added to my job acheivement.

    rudi
    ah i see a little clearer now the grey stuff is just a epoxy 'metal' and as such not fridge rated. however using glue on a fridge system sounds strange but they said that about using glue in the manufacturer of cars at first..

    cheers

    richard

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