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  1. #1
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    Two section vertical condenser



    Hi
    Have two section vertical condencer with two inlet and two outlet conections.
    There are interesting question: how does arrange pipelines?
    I suppose that for properly condencer work, pressure drop of the sections with their connection pipes must be equal, but there is different heights in wich they situated.
    Could you check my solution please?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Aik; 13-07-2010 at 07:09 PM.


    In some places will have to think ...

  2. #2
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    Re: Two section vertical condenser

    Hi there,

    This kind of condensers are designed for two separate cycles (compressors), each section must be connected to one compressor.
    If you have one compressor and want to connect it to this condenser then there is no problem.
    If you have head pressure control (fan cycling) then you have to turn off/on the fans in pairs.

    Cheers
    Even Einstein Asked Questions

  3. #3
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    Re: Two section vertical condenser

    Thanks
    In my system there is one refrigeration cycle for two sections.
    Hot gas distribution must be the same in both sections. One section situated higher and condencing pressure will be less then in lower section.
    It's my opinion... could anybody tell about arrangement of pipelines in thise case? Or may be there is any recomendations?
    In some places will have to think ...

  4. #4
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    Re: Two section vertical condenser

    Aik, Lana, you can connect both together but I will have to make a schematic of it.
    This evening or tomorrow when I have a free day here in Belgium
    You have to use a siphon to overcome pressure difference.
    Or you may enter your discharge in the middle and split both with equal length to both coils and outlet both at the lowest part
    But with a siphon, you're sure.
    Or I can scan the relevant pages from Ind. Refr. from Stoecker.
    Last edited by Peter_1; 14-07-2010 at 08:10 AM.
    It's better to keep your mouth shut and give the impression that you're stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.

  5. #5
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    Re: Two section vertical condenser

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter_1 View Post
    Aik, Lana, you can connect both together but I will have to make a schematic of it.
    This evening or tomorrow when I have a free day here in Belgium
    You have to use a siphon to overcome pressure difference.
    Or you may enter your discharge in the middle and split both with equal length to both coils and outlet both at the lowest part
    But with a siphon, you're sure.
    Or I can scan the relevant pages from Ind. Refr. from Stoecker.
    Thanks a lot, Peter_1
    It would be good to see all about thise problem, because it's very interesting question for me. Really, now I don't understand some physics sides of thise question... and want to gain an understanding.
    In some places will have to think ...

  6. #6
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    Re: Two section vertical condenser

    Yo Peter, i would like to see yore solustion to. Can you sent me a copy?........please

    Ice

  7. #7
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    Re: Two section vertical condenser

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter_1 View Post
    Aik, Lana, you can connect both together but I will have to make a schematic of it.
    This evening or tomorrow when I have a free day here in Belgium
    You have to use a siphon to overcome pressure difference.
    Or you may enter your discharge in the middle and split both with equal length to both coils and outlet both at the lowest part
    But with a siphon, you're sure.
    Or I can scan the relevant pages from Ind. Refr. from Stoecker.
    Sorry for persistence, could you scan the relevant pages from Ind. Refr. from Stoecker?
    In some places will have to think ...

  8. #8
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    Re: Two section vertical condenser

    Forgot this completely. Can you send me in PM your regular email please because I can't reduce it to a size allowed by this forum
    It's better to keep your mouth shut and give the impression that you're stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.

  9. #9
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    Re: Two section vertical condenser

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter_1 View Post
    Forgot this completely. Can you send me in PM your regular email please because I can't reduce it to a size allowed by this forum
    Hi Peter,
    you can try www.tinypic.com

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    Re: Two section vertical condenser

    Last edited by Peter_1; 02-08-2010 at 12:26 PM.
    It's better to keep your mouth shut and give the impression that you're stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.

  11. #11
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    Re: Two section vertical condenser

    Thanks Peter_1.
    Thise for ammonia systems or for refrigerant such as R404a, R22 and etc.?
    In some places will have to think ...

  12. #12
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    Re: Two section vertical condenser

    The natural phenomenas regarding pressure drop and pressure losses remains valid for every circulating liquid. So the solutions are valid for every refrigerant.
    It's better to keep your mouth shut and give the impression that you're stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.

  13. #13
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    Re: Two section vertical condenser

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter_1 View Post
    The natural phenomenas regarding pressure drop and pressure losses remains valid for every circulating liquid. So the solutions are valid for every refrigerant.
    I have never seen equaliser line in nonammonia systems...
    In some places will have to think ...

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    Re: Two section vertical condenser

    Quote Originally Posted by Aik View Post
    I have never seen equaliser line in nonammonia systems...
    If it's just one condenser with 1 circuit you will need it. Just make sure that discharge liquid line have a very very low velocity 0,3 m/s will more than sufficient so the vapor refrigerant can pass through the liquid without blockage this one.
    To make progress is never good enough, I want to do better and better and better

  15. #15
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    Re: Two section vertical condenser

    I'm sorry I meant "If it's just one condenser with 1 circuit you will not need it"
    To make progress is never good enough, I want to do better and better and better

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    Re: Two section vertical condenser

    Aik, have you ever tried to fill a bottle with streaming water where there's no possibility that air can escape out of the bottle to replace the filling water? This won't work.

    Or what if 1 l/s arrives in the receiver from eh codennser and only 0.8 l/s is leaving the receiver? (or in other words, more liquid coming in then going out of it) You will have a pressure buildup and the liquid will backup in the condenser.
    It's better to keep your mouth shut and give the impression that you're stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.

  17. #17
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    Re: Two section vertical condenser

    You can also communicate the upper part of the receiver (vapor) with the liquid separator/surge drum with pipe of very small cross section. The surge drum is connected to the LP, which is a much lower pressure and so the liquid receiver will be at a lower pressure than the condensers and so the liquid can be drained without a problem (no equalising line is needed). However with this method more energy is spent / less capacity plant because part of the vapour sucked by the compressor is from the HP, where it should be condensed.
    To make progress is never good enough, I want to do better and better and better

  18. #18
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    Re: Two section vertical condenser

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter_1 View Post
    Aik, have you ever tried to fill a bottle with streaming water where there's no possibility that air can escape out of the bottle to replace the filling water? This won't work.

    Or what if 1 l/s arrives in the receiver from eh codennser and only 0.8 l/s is leaving the receiver? (or in other words, more liquid coming in then going out of it) You will have a pressure buildup and the liquid will backup in the condenser.
    Thanks a lot. I found thise handbook and understand all... very useful book.
    In some places will have to think ...

  19. #19
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    Re: Two section vertical condenser

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandro Baptista View Post
    You can also communicate the upper part of the receiver (vapor) with the liquid separator/surge drum with pipe of very small cross section. The surge drum is connected to the LP, which is a much lower pressure and so the liquid receiver will be at a lower pressure than the condensers and so the liquid can be drained without a problem (no equalising line is needed). However with this method more energy is spent / less capacity plant because part of the vapour sucked by the compressor is from the HP, where it should be condensed.
    As far as I understand this setup, there is no surge drum, this is a common DX setup with distance aircooled condensers. Your solution is not energy friendly and you describe anyhow an additional line to be installed
    It's better to keep your mouth shut and give the impression that you're stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.

  20. #20
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    Re: Two section vertical condenser

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter_1 View Post
    As far as I understand this setup, there is no surge drum, this is a common DX setup with distance aircooled condensers. Your solution is not energy friendly and you describe anyhow an additional line to be installed
    This was just a response to AKI when he said:
    "I have never seen equaliser line in nonammonia systems..." so I just was tell him another possibilities.
    To make progress is never good enough, I want to do better and better and better

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