R410

[devlin maguire]

Can I use 404a instead of 410a its a domestic I have no idea of the make at this stage I do not carry 410a if its' a no no then I will pass the job on
Dev

[radekklimat]

404a can be used instead of the 410A but the performance drops slightly but not allowed to do the opposite because the 410A is needed in the compressor engine with more power.

[devlin maguire]

Cheers for that Rad
Dev

[B G Scott]

Just one quick point Dev you will not get your lines on unless you have the 410A connectors, check they are not 1/4SAE

[Peter_1]

Properties for R404a and R410a are extremely different. What about capillary, EEV or TEV? All these are made and balanced for R410a
It will never work. This is against all rules of good craftsmanship. If this should work, why the carry 8 bottles of refrigerant in our vans?
R410a on a domestic?

[Brian_UK]

A domestic what ?

[NoNickName]

In short: NO.

[devlin maguire]

It's a domestic air con and due to my remote location and limited ammount of call for the menagerie of refrigerants I carry 22,134a,404a, and Iam damned if I am buying any more so I will be passing this on to someone else , the refigeration industry is like the electrical industry change for the purpose of lining the pockets of the industry giants and their paid lackys, and if you believe it's purely for the enviromental issues you are one of the many bewildered and hood winked,change for supossed enviromental issues are an excuse to make even greater profits,
End of Rant
Dev

[Brian_UK]

Ooooh, sorry I asked.

[Peter_1]

R410a is also for a VRV and you call this menagerie? And you don't care for the enviroment and you have lack of rules and still carry and fills R22?
Ohhh, now I understand your question.
I should remove all R410a and vac your system and fill it with R404a.

[dubati]

i'd buy some 410a the majority of ac coming out now is 410a it's the future!!

[NoNickName]

No, it isn't. In fact, the high carbon footprint makes R410A the first candidate to being phased out in the next few years.

[devlin maguire]

I know that since Jan 01 2010 you cannot use virgin r22 (what the hell is virgin r22) I take it you can reclaim 22 on a leaking system repair the leak and reuse the gas so how do you top it up if you cant use r22 do you condemn a perfectly good system what if that is not economically possible, once again the industry giants lead use to believe that it's all about the environment, if that is the case why did we not all go over to iso's zero odp cheap and easy to produce and does not have to be reclaimed If any one believes all this hoo ha about why we must use all the flavours of gas then I do really have grave concerns about the future of mankind if you leave it to the burocrats.
devlin

[Peter_1]

Well, I know for sure it was the intention to decide in Copenhagen where they wanted to pull the line for taxes due to the carbon print.
The intention was to take 2000 as a reference because R410a then just felt out this rule (+/- 1900) but R507 and R404a should become the banned gases for the future and R134a (1300) will see a revival.

[dubati]

i'd buy some 410a the majority of ac coming out now is 410a it's the future!!

ok so 30 years in the future maybe as the case for a lot of present gasses, however, imagine the amount being used and installed now especially in the uk makes it a very important gas for the now and future for buying a stock bottle for repairs and additional charges on installs!

hopefully i'll have retired by then!

[Brian_UK]

I know that since Jan 01 2010 you cannot use virgin r22 (what the hell is virgin r22) I take it you can reclaim 22 on a leaking system repair the leak and reuse the gas so how do you top it up if you cant use r22 <snip>
devlin

You use what everyone else uses under the law, reclaimed R22; it's very simple really.

[nike123]

It's a domestic air con

I am pretty doubtful that domestic AC uses R404A refrigerant originally. How did you came up with that information. R404A usage is mostly at low and medium evaporation temperatures and not at high evaporation temperature like in AC.
What is make and model of AC?
What is compressor make and model?

[devlin maguire]

A mate has a a/c at home and requires 410 I have 404 just wondered can I use it is all

[NoNickName]

A mate has a a/c at home and requires 410 I have 404 just wondered can I use it is all

No, you can't. You won't use diesel in your petrol car, will you?

[nike123]

A mate has a a/c at home and requires 410 I have 404 just wondered can I use it is all

I see, i was in impression that is other way around.

[devlin maguire]

Brian I am missing something can you buy reclaimed R22 and use it? But not unused clean R22
That if it's the case reeks of buerocratic hog wash, in essecnce take back by unused R22 to HRP or similar and buy some reclaimed crap, do I get a rebate on the unused R22? I very much doubt it if that was the case they would all be failing over themselfs to BUY your virgin gas to recycle it to produce it as reclaimed what utter bull**** or are we to believe that all this virgin R22 would be destroyed just how thick do they want us to be

[lice to chill]

you asked a rhetorical question there

[devlin maguire]

No not rhetorical at all, if it was it would require no answer, as it is it does require clarification If you have virgin R22 where do you take it? to the same establishment you buy recycled R22 Now if this situation has never arisen then it's clear that everyone who HAD R22 used it by the deadline ( yeah right) I am the only person who on priciple refuses to do so and untill some one in authority can clarify the the above issue will not.
Dev

[monkey spanners]

Hi Devlin,

I ran my stock down of R22 before the deadline and returned a half full bottle of R22 and bought a new one of reclaimed R22 on my first visit to the wholsalers in january.
The ban on use was well publisized in the trade publications and at the wholesaler counters, the information was there, only you have a choice what you do with the information, as indeed you have a choice now as to what you do and face the consequences thereof.

I chose to follow the rules as i undestood them and lost £20 worth of R22.

Jon

[Brian_UK]

Devlin, you, like lots of people don't always agree with the Rule of Law, however it is what we have to work with.

The worrying thing is that you appear to think that this has happened overnight.

[devlin maguire]

I must apologise if my comments on this have in some way given the immpression that I flaunt the law the truth is that whilst the trade publications were informing all of the immpending change,I unfortunaltly was hospitialised for 3 years getting cancer treatment and a period of recupperation afterwards and have only this year returned to work, Now I have not mentioned this to seek sympathy But as an otherwise active guy (ex Royal Marine Reservist) I took this hard and I have to admit embittered me a bit and as a result I tend to get a bit bolshy,however it sometimes take a bit of advice from my peers to level me out. I will of course return the R22 the next time I am at the suppliers If that is still possible
Devlin

[monkey spanners]

I must apologise if my comments on this have in some way given the immpression that I flaunt the law the truth is that whilst the trade publications were informing all of the immpending change,I unfortunaltly was hospitialised for 3 years getting cancer treatment and a period of recupperation afterwards and have only this year returned to work, Now I have not mentioned this to seek sympathy But as an otherwise active guy (ex Royal Marine Reservist) I took this hard and I have to admit embittered me a bit and as a result I tend to get a bit bolshy,however it sometimes take a bit of advice from my peers to level me out. I will of course return the R22 the next time I am at the suppliers If that is still possible
Devlin

Hi Devlin,

My dad got cancer in his fifties, he was always quite an angry man, many things would wind him up, he believes his anger helped cause the cancer. (he is ok now, having been clear for a few years he is no more at risk than anyone else now)
Its because of this that i try to not let things bother me too much, knowing how these illnesses tend to run in families.

Take care,

Jon

[devlin maguire]

Hi Jon thank for you kind words I hope all remains well with you and your kin
Dev

[Brian_UK]

Fair comment Devlin, we are all allowed to run off now and again.

PM sent.