Australian Refrigeration Mechanics Obsolete?

[bundysnake]

Just wondering what peoples thoughts are in regards to the future of licensed Australian Refrigeration Mechanics??

There are so many licensed mechanics out there that have done domestic air con installation work right from the day they started in the industry and it seems to me that these guys (myself included) are being put in a difficult position at the moment and from what i can see things will only get worse. Since the introduction of the restricted ARC licensed a lot of electrical contractors are installing split systems at prices far cheaper than the average self employed refrigeration mechanic can offer as they can do all there own electrical work where as we need to employ a sparky full time or contract a sparky on a per job basis. These restricted licenses allow them to install split systems up to 18kW which is the majority of the domestic market and from what i can see is forcing self employed refrigeration mechanics to leave the industry or seek full time employment.

A sparky can get a restricted ARC license with the click of his fingers but us unrestricted licensed refrigeration mechanics cannot get a license to run our own interconnect cable (notice i said run not connect) unless we do a full 4 year electrical apprenticeship. At this point of my life it seems as though i have wasted 4 years of my life as an apprentice refrigeration mechanic in the domestic industry to find out that the domestic air conditioning installation mechanic is dead and obsolete..

I'm also worried about what the future has in store for us in regards to natural refrigerants..........will our industry protect us by requiring this equipment to be installed & serviced by full unrestricted licensed refrigeration mechanics who have undertaken the appropriate natural refrigerants training & safety courses? Or will this type of residential equipment need to be installed by a licensed gas fitter if the refrigerant is flammable? Plumbers will probably end up stealing this work/income from us now!

If anyone has any knowledge or opinions please chime in.

I'd love to here from some of the people who control our industry.

[casstrig]

Having done my apprenticeship with General Electric in Sydney and working a further although not presently living in Australia I think I would suggest that with experience however much you know you never know enough.
Why don't you do a night school course,electrical is split in license A and License B beat them at there own game.
It might seem long but time flies once you start.

[RANGER1]

Having done my apprenticeship with General Electric in Sydney and working a further although not presently living in Australia I think I would suggest that with experience however much you know you never know enough.
Why don't you do a night school course,electrical is split in license A and License B beat them at there own game.
It might seem long but time flies once you start.

Totally agree , all domestic & commercial refrigeration / air con is in the same boat .

I'd imagine trade school will eventually catch up with this gap .

[mikeref]

Bundysnake, i've been self employed for over 16 years and now only install splits when i work with sparkies i know and get on well with, however most of the time i advise clients to full time installers locally. There's no money in it when we can't do the complete job ourselves. Best to look at staying in service/breakdown fields covering refrigeration in general+ vehicle a/c.. come to think of it vehicle a/c's are not so easy with onboard interlocks, short and long term memory etc... mike

[bundysnake]

Thanks for the replies but i actually have a stable full time position. I was actually interviewing people for a service position within our company and i found many of the applicants were previous self employed doing domestic installations but since the arrival of the restricted ticket for sparkies these refrig mechs have been forced out of their own game due to not being able to compete in the cut throat market.

I would love to get my electrical license but Night school is not an option in Queensland Australia, you need to do a 4 year apprenticeship and TAFE can only be done in 7 week full time blocks & of course you must be working with a licensed electrician. I couldn't afford to be off work for 7 weeks and secondly i don't work with a sparky.

I have worked with many sparkies over the past years and its very rare to find a sparky that can understand a simple interconnect, i usually get a contractor to do all electrical work for me then they end up asking me how it's to do it.

I guess my point is why isn't our industry protecting our future?? Why should we be forced do 4 year apprenticeship to become a sparky when a sparky only has to do an additional year to get a restricted refrig license?

I would love to branch out and learn other areas of the HVAC industry also but there is no training courses available and in most cases employers want lots of prior experience when hiring a tradesperson.

[Slugracing]

It looks like the mechanics are having the same issue as the Australian manufacturers, they can not survive in their own industry. Sad really

[paul_h]

Don't be an installer for simple splits. You are going to be poor every spring and autumn anyway if that's all you do.

Simple really, as someone one said in these forums, if all you do is install splits, you are not a refrig tech.

A sparky/plumber isn't going to install VAV, refrigeration, service or repair them or any other a/c. That's where you can be a refrig tech and do something that another trade can't do.

The only job out there for someone who isn't a refrig mech is installing simple splits.
There is still the more complicated install side and refrigeration on a whole there.
Plus there's plenty of customers who aren't coming off the street demanding the cheapest installation price. I've got a bunch of businesses and customers who come to me first rather than getting whatever cheap installer the retailer etc recommends to them because they expect full service, not a split basher that chucks it in anywhere it will fit and then refer them to warranty for every single simple issue.

Thanks for the replies but i actually have a stable full time position. I was actually interviewing people for a service position within our company and i found many of the applicants were previous self employed doing domestic installations but since the arrival of the restricted ticket for sparkies these refrig mechs have been forced out of their own game due to not being able to compete in the cut throat market.

Ahh interesting, yeah thing are bleak here for them too.
I know of two electricians that made a packet of doing the wiring for a few installers, or did the whole job themselves. I've heard they are completely dead right now, as well as the installers they worked with. Small sole trader style installation ties in with the building industry and gets quiet when they are quiet, because they of course don't do major projects, just easy small domestic splits.
They probably made 3x what I did last year, but plenty of work still out there for repairers like me, plus I still getting asked for heaps of install quotes too.

[cool_tech]

hi guys,
you are all right about the split system theme, cheap rough and nasty then the real fridgies fix the problem and we are left arguing with the customer for money after the dodgy installer has run with the money.
the big hvac companies take on contracts for $65 an hour and employe the FBI {filter & belt inspector) and cant fix anything. if you are a competent fridgey there is work out there and people will be looking for good employees come summer. (ship jumping time).

[amerillove]

the situation is same in our country. Mitsubishi Electric units are much more expensive than the competition. Why is that? Does any one knows why?

[Ross]

Hi Bundysnake,

I myself am a Ref Mechanic and live in QLD. I couldn't agree with you more with regards to the licencing issues we face.
With regards to training I was in a similar position as you. For a few years I contacted the TAFE at Logan to enrol in the post trade Diploma of HVAC and Ref Engineering which they no longer conduct. After a couple of years I discovered that TAFE in Sydney do it via the Internet. It is a 2 year course and once completed will allow you to apply for an Unlimited BSA (greater than 18kW design) licence in QLD. Although I am full time employed and happy with my job I saw this as a way to other areas of the industry if necessary in the future plus broaden my skills and knowledge. I am due to complete at the end of this year and feel as though it has been thing I have done for my career!
I would highly recommend doing the course.

[AUScooler:-)]

What are RE members opinions of the ARC licensing amendments on the 20/4/2010? I did not know that the licensing was going to be changed until I recieved the July 2010 cool-change letter from the ARC in the mail 3 months later. Why does the ARC not consult with people who work in the occupation of refrigeration?

The below is the licensing changes that were made. I think there adding icing to the cake so more plumbers and electricians will be lured into short courses. I also believe they will make many more changes over the next few years. Also do not be fooled the drinks industry means commercial refrigeration. Any cabinet or cool room can have drinks placed in them.


Latest changes to the Regulations—April
2010
The Ozone Protection and Synthetic Greenhouse Gas Management
Regulations 1995 have been amended, with changes effective from
20 April 2010. Some changes, outlined below, will be of interest to
refrigerant handling license (RHL) holders and refrigerant trading
authorization (RTA) holders.
Restricted Split System Air Conditioning Installation and
Decommissioning License changes now accommodate two-part hot
water and swimming pool heat pumps
The Restricted Split System Installation and Decommissioning License
category now includes two-part hot water heat pumps (of less than 18kW).
The license has also undergone a name change and is now called the
Restricted Heat Pump Installation and Decommissioning License. However,
the code on the RHL will still stipulate ‘Split system’ with the conditions
updated to indicate `Split system A/C, single head to 18kW’ and `Heat
pumps up to 18kW’.
Expanding the scope of the Restricted Domestic Refrigeration and Air
Conditioning Appliances (Domestic) License
The entitlement of the domestic license has expanded to allow the license
holder to handle fluorocarbon refrigerant during any work on drinks fridges,
refrigerated vending machines, ice cream chests, frozen carbonated
beverage machines (slushies) and post-mix machines.
Note that these systems must neither:
(a) be permanently connected to the power supply of the premises
where it is installed, nor
(b) require the installation of pipe work to enable the movement of
refrigerant.
The qualifications needed to obtain the domestic licence have not changed.
Transitional drinks licence holders applying for a domestic licence after 1
July 2010 are required to demonstrate that they hold one of the appropriate
qualifications.
All holders of a domestic licence are now considered entitled to conduct any
work on both domestic refrigeration or air conditioning equipment and the
drinks machines described above.

[alan_man]

Funny thing is you don't even have to be a qualified sparky to get your RHL or RTA, I have both of them and am a 2nd year electrical apprentice. I originally wanted to become a sparky then discovered split systems while on work experience, they caught my eye and then decided to do both. I done cash work with a fella who put in splits for about 1 1/2 years, then started my apprenticeship with another fella who put in splits (done that for 6 months). Now doing strictly electrical with another big company while doing splits on the side. As mentioned, trying to get jobs while having to tell people they must get a sparky in to do electrical didn't seem like the best idea. However I do have an interest in refrigeration to some degree and try keep my knowledge up to date with split systems and how they work unlike half the other sparkies out there. There's qualified guys at work who have tried jumping on the split bandwagon, one of them was telling me he has four units to install at a persons house. I asked him how many he's put in to which he replied "done the TAFE course and put one in at my house which took ages" - seems scary what half the blokes are up to. I've also come across the cowboy jobs which you can only shake your head at. I also believe the RHL ruling is becomming a bit of a joke, that basically means I can go deal with equipment I have not one bit of training in. Just because various types of equipment operate on the same principles doesn't mean you can go pull out the tools and get stuck into them. They should now require RHL holders to perform further training on working on equipment that we are entitled to.

[AUScooler:-)]

Funny thing is you don't even have to be a qualified sparky to get your RHL or RTA, I have both of them and am a 2nd year electrical apprentice. I originally wanted to become a sparky then discovered split systems while on work experience, they caught my eye and then decided to do both. I done cash work with a fella who put in splits for about 1 1/2 years, then started my apprenticeship with another fella who put in splits (done that for 6 months). Now doing strictly electrical with another big company while doing splits on the side. As mentioned, trying to get jobs while having to tell people they must get a sparky in to do electrical didn't seem like the best idea. However I do have an interest in refrigeration to some degree and try keep my knowledge up to date with split systems and how they work unlike half the other sparkies out there. There's qualified guys at work who have tried jumping on the split bandwagon, one of them was telling me he has four units to install at a persons house. I asked him how many he's put in to which he replied "done the TAFE course and put one in at my house which took ages" - seems scary what half the blokes are up to. I've also come across the cowboy jobs which you can only shake your head at. I also believe the RHL ruling is becomming a bit of a joke, that basically means I can go deal with equipment I have not one bit of training in. Just because various types of equipment operate on the same principles doesn't mean you can go pull out the tools and get stuck into them. They should now require RHL holders to perform further training on working on equipment that we are entitled to.

Thanks for the honest reply

How did you you get a RHL (refrigerant handling license) if you are only a 2nd year electrical apprentice did someone from the ARC or a TAFE asses you for RPL ( recognition of prior learning) to get a certificate 2? After they assesed you for RPL did you have to do a 1 or 2 day course on refrigeration? Also it does not come as a surprise to me that you were able to obtain the license.

[alan_man]

TAFE offers the Restricted Split course over 20 weeks, one night per week. If you are a sparky then they offer the fast-tracked course which reduces the time to 10 weeks. Since I done the majority of modules through trade school I got RPL which allowed me to do the fast tracked 10 week course. However ARCTICK only allows you do do the TAFE course if you can do the course while under "supervision" from a fellow ARCTICK licence holder (this is more for the out of TAFE training) and eventually that licence holder has to sign off on work you have done with split systems in order to obtain the course certificate. Since I was doing my apprenticeship with an ARCTICK licence holder, he agreed to sign his name for me and the work I done with him. Even though this seems like a restriction for the average sparky, how many people know people from the trade? All a sparky has to do is be friend an ARCTICK licence holder, throw him a carton of beer for some signatures and away they go. I got mine legitimately and had enough experience to be able to get my certificate and RHL licence. However, I have heard that the cost of the course has increased dramatically - at the time I enrolled, the course was around the $1200 mark and apparently now has risen to around $3000. I got told this from another guy from work who wanted to do the course and went to the information night. Apparently the lecturers were giving some song and dance about trying to eliminate these cowboys, how people have to start charging more more installs etc etc. I don't believe this will do much sincxe CITB will still refund a portion, you can claim the cost of the course on your tax (as it's for work purposes) and also even a couple of installs will have you your money back

[Tesla]

Hi Guys
I am not so sure about it being easy to get the ARCTICK license (not sure about the restricted). I have been a fridgie since 1989, trained and qualified in NZ. I had a little break and did BMS for six years and have come back to doing fridge work this year. There appears to be a lot of red tape and revenue collection for me to get this license. Here's what I have done so far 1: Went to Fair Trading (for a license) who sent me to the Head Tutor at Tafe, 2: He sent me to Education and Training for a Craft Certificate who, 3: sent me to Tafe for proof of NRO3 or equivalent who, 4: advised me that if I did this then the Education and Training would want recognition of Certificate 3 in refrigeration, which I am in the process of obtaining. Once this is done then I am to go back to Education and Training for the Certificate then back to Fair Trading for the ARCTICK license at a total cost of around $3000. All this when I have level 4 Refrigeration in NZ. I am frustrated that I need to pay all this money and possibly do extra courses for a certificate to obtain the license less than what I already have.
Here's the last laugh - I do think we will become redundant (to some extent) due to BMS where they can self diagnose and fault find systems. A senior lady said to me earlier this week "Fancy that, they put this A/C on a computer to control, we don't even know what the temperature is let alone able to change it". I replied "Great, then they can send out the robot to change the faulty fan motor on your A/C which is not working".

[AUScooler:-)]

TAFE offers the Restricted Split course over 20 weeks, one night per week. If you are a sparky then they offer the fast-tracked course which reduces the time to 10 weeks. Since I done the majority of modules through trade school I got RPL which allowed me to do the fast tracked 10 week course. However ARCTICK only allows you do do the TAFE course if you can do the course while under "supervision" from a fellow ARCTICK licence holder (this is more for the out of TAFE training) and eventually that licence holder has to sign off on work you have done with split systems in order to obtain the course certificate. Since I was doing my apprenticeship with an ARCTICK licence holder, he agreed to sign his name for me and the work I done with him. Even though this seems like a restriction for the average sparky, how many people know people from the trade? All a sparky has to do is be friend an ARCTICK licence holder, throw him a carton of beer for some signatures and away they go. I got mine legitimately and had enough experience to be able to get my certificate and RHL licence. However, I have heard that the cost of the course has increased dramatically - at the time I enrolled, the course was around the $1200 mark and apparently now has risen to around $3000. I got told this from another guy from work who wanted to do the course and went to the information night. Apparently the lecturers were giving some song and dance about trying to eliminate these cowboys, how people have to start charging more more installs etc etc. I don't believe this will do much sincxe CITB will still refund a portion, you can claim the cost of the course on your tax (as it's for work purposes) and also even a couple of installs will have you your money back

There is no way a refrigeration apprentice even if they are fourth year can connect the pipe work on a split system A/C and sign off as it takes 4 years to achieve certificate 3. The ARC will not give a refrigeration mechanic a RHL until this certificate 3 is produced. Yet it sounds like the electrical industry have very carefully structured the training modules for electrical apprentices so an electrician can get a split system license in their 2nd year. I wonder if electricians can get this license on their 1st year, do you know alan_man? Electrical employers would now be paying a second year apprentice $10 an hour to install a split A/C who is actually qualified to do so. When can an apprentice sparky do the wiring on a heat pump alan_man can you run cables etc when not being supervised? Also what qualification does an electrician need to work on a plug in appliance.

[AUScooler:-)]

Hi Guys
I am not so sure about it being easy to get the ARCTICK license (not sure about the restricted). I have been a fridgie since 1989, trained and qualified in NZ. I had a little break and did BMS for six years and have come back to doing fridge work this year. There appears to be a lot of red tape and revenue collection for me to get this license. Here's what I have done so far 1: Went to Fair Trading (for a license) who sent me to the Head Tutor at Tafe, 2: He sent me to Education and Training for a Craft Certificate who, 3: sent me to Tafe for proof of NRO3 or equivalent who, 4: advised me that if I did this then the Education and Training would want recognition of Certificate 3 in refrigeration, which I am in the process of obtaining. Once this is done then I am to go back to Education and Training for the Certificate then back to Fair Trading for the ARCTICK license at a total cost of around $3000. All this when I have level 4 Refrigeration in NZ. I am frustrated that I need to pay all this money and possibly do extra courses for a certificate to obtain the license less than what I already have.
Here's the last laugh - I do think we will become redundant (to some extent) due to BMS where they can self diagnose and fault find systems. A senior lady said to me earlier this week "Fancy that, they put this A/C on a computer to control, we don't even know what the temperature is let alone able to change it". I replied "Great, then they can send out the robot to change the faulty fan motor on your A/C which is not working".

G'day Tesla

It is very easy for a person who has done the training in Australia to get the ARC license I simply sent off my certificate, application form, money and 60 days later I had the license. You must be having problems because you were trained in New Zealand. I would probably have issues if applying for ticket in other countries. I would hope in todays age there was some form of international standard but obviously not, this is the refrigeration industry and the people who run it could not organize a fuk in a brothel.

[Tesla]

Hey AUScooler
You made me chuckle. I totally agree with you, thanks.

[alan_man]

I wasn't aware of this, that seems unfair, at least that fridgey apprentice will be laughing one day and his options are not just limited to one thing - split system air conditioning. Wish I had done a dual-trade electrical/refrigeration apprenticeship but what can you do. Pretty sure a 1st year electrical apprentice can obtain their split licence + RHL + RTA, as long as they have the ARC supervisor sign them off on external training but said first year would have to complete the full term 20 week course since it would be unlikely they covered any modules in the split course through trade school. As for works that an electrical apprentice can do, it's basically anything unsupervised/ supervised which the tradesman who's name will go on that ECC feels the apprentice is capable of doing - that includes interconnect wiring, running power feeds and connecting the breaker in the switchboard. It's highly likely that the one man band sparky who does split systems as well will be more than happy to have the apprentice do what they can and they then sign off electrical certificate of compliance, its just the way they are. However even though this may happen with bigger companies, you have the bigger OHS issues and moral dilemma of having apprentices work unsupervised in their earlier years and doing most of the serious work (even though they may be perfectly capable). There's also the fact of where work is being done, generally early year sparkies don't go around on big construction sites wiring up boards etc but then again you will probably find a first or second year do this on a little existing domestic dwelling where the customer is inside completely unaware who's working on what. So I guess to summarise it all depends on where you work and who you work for. When I do my jobs I usually do everything but have a work mate (sparky) there supervising what I do so he feels comfortable putting his name on the ECC the customer requests. As for working on plug in appliances I'm not completely sure but I believe you still need a B-class electrical license to work with associated wiring (eg interconnect etc)