R407C and R410a for low temperature

[Tanja]

Dear All!

What do you think about using R407C and specially R410a for low evaporationg temperatures (-35°C)?
Daikin both for Condensing units for low and medium temperatures...

[Tanja]

Dear All!

What do you think about using R407C and specially R410a for low evaporationg temperatures (-35°C)?
Daikin IS USING both for Condensing units for low and medium temperatures...

Daikin IS USING both...

[NoNickName]

To everything there is a season, a time for every purpose under heaven . . . a time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance . . .

There is a refrigerant for low temperature
There is a refrigerant for high temperature.

[juliop]

I just get my Certification for R-410

[Tanja]

There is a refrigerant for low temperature
There is a refrigerant for high temperature.

As I am pretty new in this bussines, can you provide more infroamtions...

[NoNickName]

As I am pretty new in this bussines, can you provide more infroamtions...

As new as you can be, I'm pretty sure that you realised that p-T equilibrium curves of different refrigerants are all different.
The highest the pressure for a given temperature, the better performance at low temperatures, and viceversa.

[jcook1982]

Dear All!

What do you think about using R407C and specially R410a for low evaporationg temperatures (-35°C)?
Daikin both for Condensing units for low and medium temperatures...

R410A is one of the refrigerants in R407C. I believe the make up of R407C is R134A and R410A. IT words good in low temperature applications. What is your -35 evaporator going to be used for? Cooling a chamber or cooling another refrigerant circuit (cascade)?

[NoNickName]

R410A is one of the refrigerants in R407C.

No, it isn't. Every refrigerant that starts with a "4" is already a blend, a zeotropic one, to be precise.

[VRVIII]

No, it isn't. Every refrigerant that starts with a "4" is already a blend, a zeotropic one, to be precise.

R134a is a single component

R407c is a Zeotropic mixture - R-32 (23%) / R-125 (25%) / R-134a (53%)

R410a is a Quasi-Azeotropic mixture - R-32 (50%) / R-125 (50%)

[jcook1982]

Sorry for the mistake... I think of R410A as a single refrigerant because I do not blend it myself. I blend R410A and R134A to achieve R407C and R407D.... Soon hope to start blending proprietary mixes that my manufacturer uses.

[Tanja]

R410A is one of the refrigerants in R407C. I believe the make up of R407C is R134A and R410A. IT words good in low temperature applications. What is your -35 evaporator going to be used for? Cooling a chamber or cooling another refrigerant circuit (cascade)?

Hi!
-35° evaporator/cabinet is used for deep-freezed goods in markets.

There are 2 versions of units with R410a:

1) unit only for deep-freeze and different unit for medium temperatures- It has same components but electronic part is different. Note: in smallest units is only one compressor (min Te=-45°C) . Commercial name: ZEAS

2) outdoor unit for medium temperatures + booster compressors for Te=-35°C-everything connected in same refrigerrant circuit. On this system are connected indoor units whitch are using heat recovery during winter. System is dimensioned for required refrigeration and cooling demand of the space. Commercial name: Conveni Pack

I heard some comments that R410a is "not stable" at so low temperature, but as far as I saw installed systems are working perfectly!

[DEVIL]

Sorry for the mistake... I think of R410A as a single refrigerant because I do not blend it myself. I blend R410A and R134A to achieve R407C and R407D.... Soon hope to start blending proprietary mixes that my manufacturer uses.

Way would you blend them yourself ??

I wouldn't recommend any of them, for low evap , like -35 is outside the recommended limit for 407c or 410a

i would recommend R404 it's at it's home domain

[taz24]

Sorry for the mistake... I think of R410A as a single refrigerant because I do not blend it myself. I blend R410A and R134A to achieve R407C and R407D.... Soon hope to start blending proprietary mixes that my manufacturer uses.

Are you sure???

You blend 410a and 134a to make 407c??

407c is a blend of R32/R125/R134a @ 23% / 25% / 52%.

taz

.

[DrFreezeMD]

Units that are available in the USA with R410A are Air Conditioning Units and Heat Pumps. I do not know of any manufacturer making R410A available for Refrigeration applications but a chiller application is probably available. Factory done Low Temperature units are being made with R404A and R507. I have seen and used R22 as a Low Temp Application but the compressor head needed a Demand Cooling switch to cool compressor head. Here in the USA I just haven't heard of R410A being used this way and I would think it was more possible with R407C. But the Compression Ratios with R410A at Low Temperatures I would think we would see something worse than what was going on with R22 at these temperatures.

[sfnz]

Units that are available in the USA with R410A are Air Conditioning Units and Heat Pumps. I do not know of any manufacturer making R410A available for Refrigeration applications but a chiller application is probably available. Factory done Low Temperature units are being made with R404A and R507. I have seen and used R22 as a Low Temp Application but the compressor head needed a Demand Cooling switch to cool compressor head. Here in the USA I just haven't heard of R410A being used this way and I would think it was more possible with R407C. But the Compression Ratios with R410A at Low Temperatures I would think we would see something worse than what was going on with R22 at these temperatures.

Ditto down here in NZ, the only time I have seen R22 used as a low temp refrigerant successfully is in the type 3 Bitzer open drive comps with water cooled heads, think 407 would be a slighter lesser nightmare than 410 in low temp work but only just due to the wide glide charcteristics

[charlie patt]

410 being used for some time inlow temp situations on frigoblock units have very little problems as far as 407c goes i dont rate the refrigerant at all i have more problems with 407 than anything else my question is why was 410 developed when 404 is available is it efficientcy?