check out these guys !!

[rbartlett]

The future...??

http://air-conditioning-forum.global...95dddccfbc957b

cheers

richard

[Coolie]

This was just one post


If like me you wondered how you are going to bend the thick pipe on the Millenniumair self install 12000 btu then maybe this tip will help?!

When performing a 90 degree bend do not grab the pipe with both hands too close as this will definately result in a " kink" instead sweep the bend I personally bent it round a rolling pin which helped stop this problem.
This is just one post!!


Also when I had finished I realised that I had 2m of pipe left, so I rang up Global Cool and asked if I could hire the Vac pump with the stuff in to shorten my lines, they said yes as I had ordered a system, even after 2 months!! It does make hiding the pipes easier and is simple to do! plus I found that I had not tightened the bigger pipe up with the vac pump, this probably saved me money anyhow. I recommend get it! Its only 50 quid after you return it. From James , a happy cool as a cucumber customer!

[FreezerGeezer]

F*****g P****s! I don't have too much of an issue with them selling DIY gear, but the advice they're giving! No need to Vac??? What about a pressure test??!!! At least I see Richard's posted to tell them about Part P. (Good one Rich. Way to go mate. ). And no doubt these undereducated guys are going to start doing installs for their mates, 'cos it's easy, pal. Don't pay Trane / Fridgetech / Carrier / York all that money. I'll chuck it in over the weekend, dude. Just get your wife to bake that great apple pie for me, and I'm there!'!!!!
Maybe we need to post there to explain to these DIY-ers WHY we're worth the money we charge. Think I'll do that soon. GOOD GOD, What's the world coming to???

[chemi-cool]

Well, well, well.

What happened to all of these regulations and the laws?

Even in my country where every body is an "engineer", nobody install their own AC. They might hang the inside unit on the wall and make the hole but this is as far as DIY people will go.
The pipe work and electric connections will be carried by a pro.

Maybe the European community should check the regulations again or, on the other hand, add a few more to stop selling air - conditioners in DIY centres.

And Coolie, don't be proud of what you are doing.

The only way to make a proper bend is to use a copper pipe bender or a spring bender.

Chemi

[rbartlett]

well I have been a 'member' for less than an hour and I'M BANNED !!!!!!!

come on guy's get registering and post some replies

cheers

richard

[eggs]

I lost a job to these about 12 mths ago.
They sold and installed a daikin inverter 6kw wallmount in a domestic conservatory cheaper than i could install an LG system.
Their pricing structure goes like this:
List price for the kit + £300 = price of install.

cheers

eggs

[eggs]

In all fairness to the guys (with regard to electrical), they do only sell self-install kit upto 3.5kw, which as we all know you can just plug in anyway.
I remember coming across this site about 18mth ago, when on the site, there was a powerpoint presentation showing you how to purge the lines using "Pressure Pops", whatever they are.
Apparently we don't need vac pumps anymore, all we have to do is, from memory.
"open the small valve a 1/4 of a turn, making sure to leave your thumb over the end of the big pipe"
then!!!
"release thumb and give 3 PRESSURE POPS"
"close small valve etc etc etc........"

At the end of the day thes people are not that different to the chancers on e-bay selling splits for £150 a go, complete with 5 year warranty.(i'd love to be a fly on the wall watching sombody trying to contact them with a claim).

cheers

eggs

[Abe]

You know just today Ive been thinking........
In the past as you may recall I tend to bitch about how the good ole days are gone..............thx to those guys who bleated about ozone and global warming and all that.

Well..............Ive had a change of heart !!
Now I says............wonderful.

Why??
Cos now we can go the route of our gas fitting couzins.........The Corgis.........Our bretherin Sparkies, The Part P Brigaders...........
Yes siree...............We now get licensed and certificated so only " us" can work on fridge plant and air con thingies

To let anyone else would harm the environment.

Are we going to get off our butts.........holler, organise, group, lobby our legislaters and get ptrotection soon ???

Its not an airy fairy idea............

[Abe]

And Eggs.............whats that " snoop" thing u got on ??
Telling me my ISP and service provider on and version of underpants Im wearing??

[chemi-cool]

Hi Abe.

That is where Eggs got his signature from, get a new one too:

http://www.danasoft.com/

I got a "thing" that tells me where "things" come from

Chemi

[Peter_1]

Something besides, Chemi posted a picture of a tube bender.
Does someone know the meaning of the different stripes on the handle? I only use the last to bend the tube in the needed centerline.

[eggs]

aiyub, if i can find software to do that, imagine what "big brother" knows, about the contents of your 'puter.
hells teeth, it doesn,t bear thinking about.

On a more serious note, i have the "part p" thing covered, as my dad is a part p, 16th edition type thingy and the corgi business, well i figured if i could install a system to withstand pressures of 45bar, i can install my own gas fire at 1/4 of a bar and sleep easily at night.(ps. i did get it checked by a mate, who is a corgi fitter, so the wife could sleep at night.)

But, what i'm getting at is, our trades governing bodies, for the future.
I thought my best route to being a "bona fida" contractor is the HVCA route (my background is more ventilation than fridge, if you hadn't guessed) with "free" Refcom membership.

What are the plans for you lot?

cheers

eggs.

[Abe]

Eggs

I just got my copy of Heating and Ventilation this morning........Theres pages of stuff about Part P............its being taken real, real seriously.............

Now kitchen fitters, plumbers, all are being advised..........dont hook up things, dont add on sockets, everything must be checked and passed.........Buildings Control must be advised of every new piece of work carried out...........Put in a new hob, Buildings control must be told and the job logged..........


Talking about welding a pipe..........Some time back.....( I wont say how long ago) I added some gas pipes.........welded copper pipe 15mm with silver solder, or was it coopertectic............refrigeration quality.

When the British Gas guy came to do a boiler check he looked at the pipes and shook his head.............You see it was alien to him...........he is used to seeing a bead of lead round his copper..........

If only he knew that my weld could tolerate a pressure approching 600 Psi......

As I say...........its no use bleating that qualifications or certifications do not compare against experience..........These days you need the piece of paper.........

You can be duff as ****, but you got the paper you rule........and you can charge the rate.

My motto is...............We too can become exclusive.........we have got something to protect...........Yes, its the bloody environment.

So we become licensed.............get our Part P's..........I heard its not that difficult to obtain..............

And if you really want to stretch your brains...........Who says we cannot do gas work as well ?????

Yes...........We will become flaming corgies as well

Woof woof#

[eggs]

Freezer geezer. (I AM NOT BEING PEDANTIC) seriously

if somebody were to ask you "Why are you worth the money you charge"?
What would be your explination?

The reason i ask is because, i had the Foster Refrigerator guy to see me a few weeks ago, and i asked him.

"When my clients say to me. Why should i pay foster prices, when i can get the same from X,Y,Z and A for 30% less"?

he couldn't give me an answer, except for "come along to one of our sales conferences and find out".

I am just curious as to what we are worth, and why?

cheers

eggs

[eggs]

Aiyub, perhaps we should share research, i have found an interweb thing, type p whatsit for £2500 fast track 2 week course.
The corgi thing is a closed shop though, even for some genuine "grandfather rights" gas fitters. i really have drawn a blank on that one.

Can your company apply for corgi registation, if you employ a corgi qualified gas fitter?

cheers

eggs

[Brian_UK]

...Can your company apply for corgi registation, if you employ a corgi qualified gas fitter?

That's the only way a company can get registration.

[eggs]

Brian, is it really as easy as that?

I talk my mate into leaving his 18k a year job as a bakery maintenance fella (job, stands for Just Over Broke)

Give him 19k per year, then stick corgi badges on my letterhed?

surely it's not as simple as that, otherwise everybody would have done it by now.

cheers

eggs

ps, if it is that easy, does anybody want to buy shares in a corgi registered gas fitter and a part p sparky?
you could easily sell me 0.000000000001% of your companies and i will provide you with an executive member of your board of directors, qualified to part p and corgi standards.

any takers

cheers

eggs

[RogGoetsch]

I just got my copy of Heating and Ventilation this morning........Theres pages of stuff about Part P............its being taken real, real seriously.............

Now kitchen fitters, plumbers, all are being advised..........dont hook up things, dont add on sockets, everything must be checked and passed.........Buildings Control must be advised of every new piece of work carried out...........Put in a new hob, Buildings control must be told and the job logged..........

You might enjoy a good movie by some of the Monty Python gang: Brazil. Only government employees can touch the HVAC systems. Robert DeNiro plays a rogue heating engineer who intercepts government calls and responds earlier, does the repair and escapes, by zipline if necessary, with the government guys hot on his trail. You would probably really enjoy his revenge!

By the way, Abe, does your period key always fail first on your keyboard??

Rog

[Brian_UK]

Brian, is it really as easy as that?

Well it used to be and I don't think it has changed.

There is no way that you can register a company, you have to have a competent person who holds a Corgi ticket. When the Corgi inspector comes around he is not concerned that the company used XYZ accounting software or has a set of gold plated pressure gauges. What he wants is to check the certificates of the alleged Corgi registered people to ensure that they are in date and will then, probably, visit a site with one of the guys while he performs a service visit.

If he is satisfied that the fellow can do the work in accordance with the regs. then he will approve the company registration renewal.

Thinking of the sparkies; when their company gets NIEC (? is that right ?) approval isn't it the competence etc of the sparkie not whether the MD wears a tie or not.

[FreezerGeezer]

Hi Eggs

Well, bear in mind that I'm talking about the likes of us, and fellow engineers who would be here if they knew this forum existed, as opposed to the chancers we all know.
Now, to me the reason we're worth the extra is that;
We have spent years training to be knowlegible about what we're doing. Hopefully we wouldn't install a 10KW machine when a 4 KW or a 13KW would be better.
We are all highly skilled. That's not to say that many DIY-ers aren't skilled, but we should know what we're doing better than them. Brazing & Pipe fitting for e.g.
We know the law! What really causes me concern with Global is that they aren't educating their clients about the law, and none of the posts so far seem to give a stuff about venting to atmosphere. And that includes the site owner!
I presume most of us have ACRIB safe handling cards, many of us have 16th. ed & maybe Part P, and some of us have Corgi as well. Some of us are probably Chartered Engineers or members of ASHRAE. That's a big investment in time and often in money too. This ties in with all three of the above points.
Global are offering a vac pump to hire as an EXTRA. Now I'm not a split installer (Commercial Fridge & now commercial A/C), but I would NEVER countenance installing pipework without pressure testing & vacc'ing out. To me, no vac = air in system = one major headache! Maybe Global are betting that they'll pick up repair work because the DIY-ers don't know any better.
Until recently, I was responsible for all the warranty claims from this office. I would NEVER happily accept a warranty claim from anyone that I felt was incompetent. In fact, our warranty T&C expressly says that if the equipment is not installed & maintained according to the correct guidelines, the warranty may be invalid. Of course, if it's a faulty part or genuine machine failure, that's fine. Otherwise you're more or less on your own. Sorry.
I'd expect that these DIY-ers would expect the same levels of service / warranty as they get on the high street. We've all returned goods to GAP, Blacks, Dixons, or wherever, to have them replaced or refunded without question or even a murmer. Industrial stuff is different, however. You need to prove that there is genuinely something wrong with the equipment, not blag the sales guy after you misused and abused it! The DIY-ers may well be in for a BIG shock if / when they have warranty or repair issues.

If I think of some more reasons, I'll post them!

[Argus]

The future...??

http://air-conditioning-forum.global...95dddccfbc957b

cheers

richard

Fascinating.
________
Honda Valkyrie

[Karl Hofmann]

The glass is eiter half empty or half full, I see it filling up.

All of those grotesque units made by the xzagdungding air conditioning and oil tanker company with their excess pipework, or pipes filled with none condensables are a service/ repair/ replacement job just waiting to happen, the added bonus is that you can take the mick out of the installation, knowing that it is getting right back to the guy who put it in.

My experience is that once the customer has had a/c in his home, he will never want to be without it, so it will be important that his second experience is better than his first with his DIY kit. We should be providing a service, assuring the customer that if anything should go wrong, we are there to sort his problems, and give him peace of mind, there will always be the fool who will want to save a few hundred quid by buying cheap and DIYing, but who does he turn to when he makes a pigs ear of the job?


They did it with gas years ago, they have just done it with electrics, I'm sure that the refrigeration and air conditioning industry will follow

[eggs]

[QUOTE=Karl Hofmann]
All of those grotesque units made by the xzagdungding air conditioning and oil tanker company with their excess pipework, or pipes filled with none condensables are a service/ repair/ replacement job just waiting to happen, the added bonus is that you can take the mick out of the installation, knowing that it is getting right back to the guy who put it in.

I don't know if you remember a company in Bradford trying to sell franchises to split installers?
Anyway one of the unlucky chaps who bought one, i bump into him sometimes in the wholesalers.
He is already counting the cost of replacing dodgy Haier and Bluecrown systems, with Mitsubishi Heavy Ind stuff.
He says it's just not worth trying to fix crap and that he has learned his lesson.

I remember an article in a magazine said of these chinese systems.
" it's like buying a car from dealer with a brick built building or buying a car from a dealer in a portacabin. which one will be there when you want your repairs done under warranty"

Craft, Emerson, Argo, where are they now?

cheers

eggs

[smileypete]

Hi,

What would be a ballpark figure for a local a/c engineer to make the flare joints, connect up, pressure test and vac down a split air conditioner?

TIA,
Pete.

[Karl Hofmann]

[QUOTE=eggs]

All of those grotesque units made by the xzagdungding air conditioning and oil tanker company with their excess pipework, or pipes filled with none condensables are a service/ repair/ replacement job just waiting to happen, the added bonus is that you can take the mick out of the installation, knowing that it is getting right back to the guy who put it in.

I don't know if you remember a company in Bradford trying to sell franchises to split installers?
Anyway one of the unlucky chaps who bought one, i bump into him sometimes in the wholesalers.
He is already counting the cost of replacing dodgy Haier and Bluecrown systems, with Mitsubishi Heavy Ind stuff.
He says it's just not worth trying to fix crap and that he has learned his lesson.

I remember an article in a magazine said of these chinese systems.
" it's like buying a car from dealer with a brick built building or buying a car from a dealer in a portacabin. which one will be there when you want your repairs done under warranty"

Craft, Emerson, Argo, where are they now?

cheers

eggs

A guy local to me used to run round with Craft all over his van, but only for a few months. Funny, but these things were made in Saudi, and from what I could remember even the Saudis wouldn't touch 'em.

I'm also starting to have a few reservations about LG, at first I really thought that it was me, but It seems that quite a few folk are having problems too, (OK Abe warned us ages ago) It would be a fair conclusion that Quality is cheaper in the long run, even for lighter duty domestic stuff.

I guess that a fair comparison would be to compare Kia to Toyota, they both have a 3 year warranty, but one brand will need it more than the other.

Unbranded stuff...No Thanks

[Karl Hofmann]

Constructive criticism is appreciated, please only comment on the Millenniumair if you have purchased or installed the systems. The forum is not a message board for HVAC engineers who are posting their opinions even though they have no knowledge of the product. Your IP address's will be frozen and posts deleted.

RICHARD!!

Have you been upsetting Mr Millenium again?.....Shame on you

[rbartlett]

I do my best..

They froze my account and deleted the Part p post because they are afraid of scaring home owners from installing their cheapies..

It's a pity but regulation is the only way forward for our industry as the sooner the better...

cheers

Richard

[Karl Hofmann]

Can't agree more.

Corgi have just confirmed in writing to me that as from April 1, I must inform CORGI of any gas installations that I do, they will inform the authorities and issue a safety certificate, they will also inspect my work at random to check my standard of work. They will also run a limited part P scheme for gas installers too. The value of Tradesmen has been pushed down by unlimited DIY'ers over the years, subsiquently so has the standard of the service provided. The public have squeezed the good tradesmen down to the lowest level, with their cheapest price, and "Ha! he's only a spanner monkey" attitude.

I wonder just how long it will be before one of his customers decides to extend his pipework with a bit of 8 or 10mm central heating pipe and soft solder from B&Q

Think that I'll ask him about part P later.

[Coolie]

And Coolie, don't be proud of what you are doing.

The only way to make a proper bend is to use a copper pipe bender or a spring bender.Chemi

I think you misunderstood. That was only a copy of one of the posts from that dodgy hole.

I have a hydraulic pipe bender that makes life quite simple when it comes to pipe work.

I aint no Diyer come cowboy!!
Thanx for the concern though

[chemi-cool]

Sorry mate.

I must have misunderstood you but so as most of the people who answered you.

What make of hydraulic bender do you use?

Chemi

[Coolie]

It is an I.T.E. I've had it for quite a while and it is brilliant. Bends pipe from 1/4" right up to 7/8". I hardly ever use springs, unless its a tight spot and the spring is the only thing that will work.
The hydrualic bender gives consistant bends so pipework is always very neat.

A little tip when working with 1/4" pipe:
When installing long straight runs, unroll a coil to about a half meter longer than the length you need, then tie one side to a fixed object, then insert the other end into the chuck of a corldess drill. Then, very slowly, spin the length of copper while pulling it towards you. This will make the soft copper become stiff, as if it were hard drawn. Then simply cut a half a meter off either end(to get rid of any dirt that may have entered the tube). This looks really good, especially if the pipework is on the side of a building or in open view!
I have done it for years and never had any further problems with regards to the operation of the system.

[chemi-cool]

It sounds like a good idea Coolie.

I might give it a try one day.

Thanks.
Chemi

[Peter_1]

Hey Coolie, speaking of a good tip.

[Abe]

I think you misunderstood. That was only a copy of one of the posts from that dodgy hole.

Coolie

I didnt misunderstand, but I had a chuckle knowing Chem did !!!!!

It made my day!!!!

[smileypete]

£120.00

Ordinarily, the salesman's travel, travel and survey time, load calc, system type and size selection time and finally his/her marketing budget have to be included in the quote. Then the contract includes supply and installation before warranty. All this costs more than the mere cost of the system, especially when it's a single 3.5kW wall mount.

Personally, I view the installation of say a 3.5kW wall mounted mini-split similar to the hanging of an expensive painting. The nail and string don't cost more than 20 pence but the installation, done by a pro handyman, might cost £80.00 for time and travel before materials. Maybe a little more if handymen require liability insurance.

Marc,

Thanks very much for the reply, the sizing shouldn't be too much of a problem as I'd look for an inverter type split.

The reason I would like to do some of the install is that I may move in a few years and won't lose so much by disconnecting the unit and selling it or taking it with me.

Like the look of these, they have a very wide range of output. Wonder when (and if!) they'll be available in the UK...

http://www.excite.co.jp/world/englis...htm&wb_lp=JAEN

Catalogue (big, 21MB!):

http://www.daiseikai.com/download/image/aircon_cata.pdf

Failing that it would be a Daikin I'd expect.

Thanks again,
Pete.

[Mr. Millennium]

Mr. Millennium, has a ring to it don't you think??

I have read your posts with interest and feel a bit hurt by the reference to the " dodgy hole " web site

We also welcome the legislation for A/C engineers.

Sorry to the gentleman who lost a job to us, if our prices are list I am shocked at what you get charged!!

I look forward to your constructive critiscm on our site

[rbartlett]

Mr. Millennium, has a ring to it don't you think??

I have read your posts with interest and feel a bit hurt by the reference to the " dodgy hole " web site

We also welcome the legislation for A/C engineers.

Sorry to the gentleman who lost a job to us, if our prices are list I am shocked at what you get charged!!

I look forward to your constructive critiscm on our site

Of course you do..which is why you suspended my account and deleted the part P thread


cheers

richard

[Mr. Millennium]

Your post was suspended as it was not constructive or any relevant advice.

Cheers

Mr. Millennium

[rbartlett]

PART P IS NOT RELEVENT TO HOME INSTALLERS!!

you heard it here first....

cheers

richard

[Mr. Millennium]

PART P IS NOT RELEVENT TO HOME INSTALLERS!!

you heard it here first....

cheers

richard

I will quote your post . I have been offered these units for £ with my brand name, I wouldn't touch them at all.

Where is the Part P reference?????

This could go on and on.....

Good fun though!

[Abe]

It's a pity but regulation is the only way forward for our industry as the sooner the better...

cheers

Richard

Lets get the ball rolling.................we need registration............and I mean FAST
Let us start brainstorming so we can get something rolling

[rbartlett]

I do my best..

They froze my account and deleted the Part p post because they are afraid of scaring home owners from installing their cheapies..

It's a pity but regulation is the only way forward for our industry as the sooner the better...

cheers

Richard

cheers

richard

[Coolie]

Just posted loads of replies to some of these people queires. go check it out

[FreezerGeezer]

Go Coolie! (I wonder how long your posts will last before they're deleted?)

[Karl Hofmann]

LOL Coolie "You are the weakest link...Goodbye"

9.30 am on the 11th of Feb and your posts have started to disappear, and you have just been demoted to a Guest.

LOL so have I. All I wanted to know was where coolies posts had gone. Some people are just no sport

[chemi-cool]

Hi Karl,

Just click on the user name Coolie, scroll down and click on "Find all posts by Coolie" and you can read them all.


Chemi

[Coolie]

Have a look to see how this idiot is manipulating peoples posts to suit himself
http://air-conditioning-forum.global...wtopic.php?t=5

He added the "However I am not qualified" bit on the end!

The guys is a w@nker and a whimp.

[Coolie]

Hi Karl,

Just click on the user name Coolie, scroll down and click on "Find all posts by Coolie" and you can read them all.


Chemi

Coolie has been removed from the memberslist, look out for n00kie though. Thats me too!

[Karl Hofmann]

Perhaps we could run a sweepstake on how long it takes Slimon to delete your posts

Is it just me, or is it that his cheap junk nicky no name units are not particularly cheap. And his installation prices aren't all that cheap either. A back to back install with no electrical work for £350-£400 inclusive of VAT equates to a decent income for a qualified tradesman working on his own.

[chemi-cool]

The site is a complete waste of time,

I've read it all and it is very shallow and it looks like the same person is asking and answering the questions.

Pubs are open soon, go have a pint and forget about that place.

Chemi