VRV Life expectancy

[puddleboy3]

Hello all! does anyone have documented information from a manufacturer on the life expectancy of VRV/VRF systems?

Any comments/info would be appreciated

[superswill]

iam not sure manufacturer would issue this.

but as a rule ten years i have always thought

any thoughts

[puddleboy3]

iam not sure manufacturer would issue this.

but as a rule ten years i have always thought

any thoughts

Hi Paul, happy new year to you! I agree with you on the ten year rule, I have a problem site that various maintenance contractors have all had a shot at carrying out repairs. The equipment is just hitting the 10 year mark, there has been problems from day one and its not getting any better. A letter from the manufacturer would be a lottery win, but its never going to happen. Im just hunting about for any info I can get a hold of.

[mad fridgie]

Economic life is 10-15 years, not quite same as how life expectency, (C/O IRHACE) you could make it live for 100 years if you keep spending, and if it has been badly maintaitained

[Thermatech]

Some older R22 VRF systems are now being replaced as the spare parts are difficult to get or very expensive in addition to the R22 refrigerant issue.
When the customer has to wait for weeks or months for replacement parts it tends to focus attention on the need to replace.
Afterall the manufacturers have already exceeded their legal responsibility to supply spare parts on those older systems. So its only by there good will that spare parts are available at all.
Clearly all the manufacturers would like customers to replace all the old R22 systems asap.
But VRF technonogy has moved on in the last 10 years & todays R410a systems are even more energy efficient so the customer will see reduced electric bill.

I tend to call up the run hrs on the outdoor unit & then explain to the customer how much he would have to pay for the compressor overhall on a chiller by the time it had done that sort of run time.

Another one is to take the run hrs of the outdoor unit & explain to the customer how many miles a car would travel in that time at average 50 miles per hr.
How many 10 year old cars does the customer still use for business.

Another one is to ask how many 10 year old cumputers the customer is still using.

Like any old car you can keep it going for as many years as you want provided spare parts are available or you are prepared to spend for replacement parts to be specialy made.

[olddog]

I continue to be amazed that manufacturers even now 'get away with not'/'have not understood the marketing value of' ( select according to your attitude) providing MTBF figures.

Or maybe some do ? please correct me if so.

[El Padre]

Just wondering if you could get something from the compressor manufacturers, If the compressor is near the high end of its expected run hours and starts your customer might take that into consideration, I don't think that you can obtain that data from the Daikin range though!

Thermatech's comparison with a chiller is an excellent example, all screw compressors come with a bearing "lifespan"/overhaul recommendation, i.e. Hitachi = 12,000 hrs, surely the hermetic compressor manufacturers can provide the same information.

Cheers

[puddleboy3]

Thanks for the replies, no doubt i'll have to put some sort of report together to fight my corner. ding ding round 1

[multisync]

Some older R22 VRF systems are now being replaced as the spare parts are difficult to get or very expensive in addition to the R22 refrigerant issue.
When the customer has to wait for weeks or months for replacement parts it tends to focus attention on the need to replace.
Afterall the manufacturers have already exceeded their legal responsibility to supply spare parts on those older systems. So its only by there good will that spare parts are available at all.
Clearly all the manufacturers would like customers to replace all the old R22 systems asap.
But VRF technonogy has moved on in the last 10 years & todays R410a systems are even more energy efficient so the customer will see reduced electric bill.

I tend to call up the run hrs on the outdoor unit & then explain to the customer how much he would have to pay for the compressor overhall on a chiller by the time it had done that sort of run time.

Another one is to take the run hrs of the outdoor unit & explain to the customer how many miles a car would travel in that time at average 50 miles per hr.
How many 10 year old cars does the customer still use for business.

Another one is to ask how many 10 year old cumputers the customer is still using.

Like any old car you can keep it going for as many years as you want provided spare parts are available or you are prepared to spend for replacement parts to be specialy made.

You can't compare apples to pairs. Computers get obsolete not due to age but to fresh software making the PC unable to cope. Of course some wags might quip Daikin software is 10+ years out of date being windows 95 quality so a 10 yr old pc is more than adequate

However speaking to various Daikin guy's 13-15 years is a good life for VRV. I believe if it's been installed and maintained correctly that is reasonable..

[puddleboy3]

I must admit I would feel the same as the customer had I spent alot of money on an all singing and dancing system, only to find out it was nothing more than a bag of spanners and not even good spanners at that! Im stuck in the position that yes it is good that I have a constant flow of repairs but it is close to the embarrassing stage, and with the manufacturer not to bothered incase they upset someone im pretty much stuck between a rock and a hard place.

[Greengrocer]

If your system is 10 years old it's probably running on R22 - which has just gone out of production & will be totally banned by 2015. Many R22 systems will get replaced will before they are 15 years old for this reason. Also because the latest systems are so much more efficient and there are financial incentives available for replacing the older systems.

[Thermatech]

This week I was working on a site with multiple VRF systems which are 9 years old running on R407c & all had recorded 50,000 to 60,000 compressor run hrs.
The customer has only now just started to have compressor failures.
Provided the manufacturer continues to supply spare parts there is no reason why the systems will not continue to operate for a few more years with regular service.