Ammonia Refrigeration License

[jaysephus]

personal stuff sorry

[Toosh]

I've been working with refrigeration for 7 years now. When I started my industrial refrigeration job I had 3 years of college focusing on industrial maintenance and operation. I graduated with a refrigeration license and boilers license so when I walked onto my plant for the first day I was capable to operate an ammonia refrigeration system. Then I found out that here in the US you do not need any kind of license to operate and ammonia system. The other guys I work with were hired off the street with no refrigeration experience of any kind, at all! When you look around in the industry that is not an only tale, it's the normal it seems. You have to have a license to cut hair but not work with ammonia!!! There is an OSHA requirement about training every 3 years and such but my point is there is no basic test, nothing to prove you are competent to even stand in an engine room. One of the guys I work with couldn't refrigerate his way out of a paper bag ( I don't really know if that makes sense but it sounded funny) and he has been working here the longest! He once isolated a 4" liquid line filled with ammonia between a check valve and isolation valve I just so happened to see him do this and questioned him about why this is wrong and he got upset and walked away! When I opened the valve I heard the loudest rush of pressure relieving I've ever heard. I mean, isn't that like rule #1 in ammonia!!! Is this only in the US or is this worldwide?

Hi Jaysephus, I Know in Canada you need an operators license to work with ammonia

Regards Norm

[Grizzly]

Hi jaysephus
Here in the U.K. there is no legal requirement for anyone to be "Ticketed" to work with AMMONIA.
In fact I can think of several site engineers that I work alongside nowadays.
That have only recently become "ticketed"
Then it was only to limit any possible criticism that may be layed at their employers door, should there be an incident.
Personnaly I am very wary of Newly trained "Safe Handling of Ammonia Ticket Holders".
You could liken it to a new Car Driver.
"You have passed the test! Now go out and learn" springs to mind.

The only saving grace is not many people mess around with Ammonia.
Personnaly I am particular as to who I work with when working upon Ammonia plant!
Things are getting better slowly though.
Keep up the good work.
Grizzly

[RANGER1]

jaysephus , Australia you used to be ticketed but gov't dropped it for self regulation .
It used to be the same ticket as you suggest , ammonia and boiler .
Now they have a 1 week course on ammonia , as employer is responsible for any training .
Automatic fridge + boilers killed the operator profession .
We are now expected to run plants as no one is interested and they pay crap wages .

[jaysephus]

personal stuff sorry

[abet_meneses]

jaysephus,in my country we are probably on the same boat,you doesnt need a license to operate mush less repair an ammonia refrigeration plant.operators and mechanics that does "nt,even have refrigeration background that acts like pea****s ,pretending they know all the valves and controls installed in the system,that when a release occurs they scampered out of the way.

[abet_meneses]

jaysephus

here,we have many ammonia facility(ICE PLANTS) manned by operators that doesnt" have refrigeration background.they learned thru experienced, and acts like pea****s ,pretending they know all the function of valves and controls installed that when a accident release comes, they scampered out of the way.

[jaysephus]

personal stuff sorry

[RANGER1]

Its a combination of theory and hands on .
As long as you have safety precautions in place and self preservation in mind at all times .

Usually you learn the most in after hours problems as they are the ones you have to fix .

[charlie n]

abet,
we would agree that learning thru experiance is not bad or wrong, ive learned thru experiance too. however that is not the only way and professionals like us know that. i just don't like when guys say, "well i learn by hands on, blah blah blah" "its the best way to learn blah blah blah" i find that to be the excuse they don't like reading or are just naturally not curious. i don't mean to rant here and would like to talk straight refrigeration, but some people just want their 40 hours a week and done.

I had an old friend that would say that experience is the best university but the tuition can be awfully high.

[krnjad]

I worked in the food industry on the operation and maintenance ammonia refrigerators cooling system with four-10-30-40 and -42. Ammonia refrigerators was charged with 12t of ammonia, and it was normal and that workers be added trained.U Bosnia and law is required to attend Workman professional exam before the exam but has to work a minimum of three years as a spare workman.Workman passing the test and get Professional machinist compressor and refrigeration systems (all types and capacities) and can work on the operation and maintenance cooling system.

[chilldis]

the best way to learn any profession is to complete a votech or college course on the subject and then work with a competent professional for a few years before going out on your own. "A piece of paper does not mean you can safely do the job."

[jaysephus]

personal stuff sorry

[Ammoniakid]

Hey Jaysephus or should I say Jason? How long have you been working in refrigeration? 7 years? I still remember the day you joined the freezer team three years ago and We had to take you by the hand and show you what ammonia smelled like. Now you are an expert? It's sad to see that you talk bad about your co-workers knowing that they pretty much thought you what you know. You should be glad minnesota allows people to be hired off the street to work with ammonia, otherwise you would not have a job. I like this forum because it's very educational and can help you learn a lot. You are a smart guy and you don't have to be making yourself sound good on here to prove it. Just don't bad mouth the guys that taught you what you know about ammonia. By the way I don't think we are allowed to post pictures of the plant anywhere. Just letting you know.

[jaysephus]

personal stuff sorry

[jaysephus]

sorry guy but i wanted to delete all my posts, sorry

[jaysephus]

i believe all posts are now deleted and i think with site rules by doing that i will be kicked off the site

[jaysephus]

personal stuff, sorry

[JHdlinc]

Its best to show your co workers respect. They have hands on experience. They may not have gone through the training you have, but I bet they have learned a lot along the way. I do beleive they could or have showed you a few things you didn't learn in school.

[AmmoniaMike]

In Ontario, Canada an operator requires one year of on the job time and must pass 2 exams to get Refrigeration B operators license. This lets a fellow operate any refrigeration plant in Ontario and be the Chief Operator for any plant under 800 bhp. To be the chief of a >800 bhp plant you need minimum of one year operating a plant of at least 800 bhp and pass another 2 exams. To be a refrigeration mechanic you need 9000 hours apprentiship and 24 weeks of class room time. You then must pass the journeyman's exam before you can be licensed to go out and cause havoc on your own.

[NH3ISFORME]

I don't know whats really going on with this thread but, I'll give it my 2 cents. I went to HVAC tech school in the US have a RETA CARO cert and have been in ammonia engine rooms in house for almost two years. I too am equally ammazed at the lack of training and funding put forth by companies who use ammonia for refrigeration. My boss is a electrician who couldn't pass the test for his license but he is in charge of HVAC refrigeration and electrical. Some other guys told me he was showing people around a freezer facility we run and he told them the underfloor heat exchanger was a "chiller". NOw I'm not knocking myself here as a off the street guy with hvac experience, but i don't lock up liquid or put myself or others in harms way.

[Nh34life]

In New zealand you need nothing really until something goes wrong, then you will go for a skate..you should have a refrigeration level 4 and an electrical service ticket to practice legaly then obtain a NH3 handlers cert(which is as easy as empting out your cereal box). plant operators must have both a P.O cert + ammonia hand cert. Not very good training at all to play with time bombs in my opinion.
All trade certs are given away to keep the schools grades looking good for govt funding!